MASTERING

[moriaty]

excellent stuff kama, well useful knowledge there.
how much reduction are you aiming for on the compressor ?

 

[kama]

as i said about -1 or -2 max. keeps things transparent. Auto gain makeup off preferably for me, but sometimes it needs to be on, depending on the case.

 

[RUSSLA]

Great thread and read. Learnt a lot! Cheers boyos!

 

[Neural Tech]

Gaining the final mix up +10dB and limiting it up +10dB are two different things. A limiter will always touch transients while a simple gain will leave them as is. If you limit without triggering the treshold, you're not limiting, you are simply applying more gain.

but all in all, mix balance will sound same with peaks at -10 and at -1. You can simply make up for it by adjusting your amp/mixer/whatever gain accordingly.

So you and GorDo aren't saying that the mix won't sound different in terms of volume, you're saying the mix won't sound different in terms of 'balance'... ahhhhh...

Gordo, I thought you were saying the mix wouldn't be different in terms of volume/loudness... I'm sorry, I misunderstood.

Yeah, the balance is going to be the same no matter what the overall volume (master channel) is at... agreed.

 

[Neural Tech]

but why would you go that low ? theres no point in peaking a mix at -20, at which point you will have more than likely reduced each channel's fader enough as to lose resolution. thats not what i describe.
this is complicated...i suppose each to their own and all that jazz..

I meant, bringing the Master Channel down to -20, not mixing the entire mix to be -20.

I misunderstood what we were talking about initially, but now that Kama has weighed in; I'm on the same page.


Check out that "Bomberman" WIP if you're interested and let me know what you think of the Production.

http://dnbforum.com/showthread.php?p=738340#post738340

(shameless plug)

 

[moriaty]

just had a listen and checked the thread too. the guys pretty much covered me, kick is a bit odd, percussion needs more detail/groove, atmospherics are very cool indeed, and that lead makes the whole tune a bit odd.
decent production, you certainly got the technical side down

 

[Neural Tech]

just had a listen and checked the thread too. the guys pretty much covered me, kick is a bit odd, percussion needs more detail/groove, atmospherics are very cool indeed, and that lead makes the whole tune a bit odd.
decent production, you certainly got the technical side down

Much appreciated for the listen/feedback!

There's going to be slightly more Perc added... along with a decent amount of edits to change things up a bit.

I tried making an alternate version that doesn't have that Ravey synth in the middle and I couldn't do it.

I wish I knew why most folks would prefer the KD to be lower in pitch... lol... I imagine it not sounding right with a KD any lower in pitch.

Lol, can't please everyone. thks for checking it

 

[Yobbo]

CALLING ALL MASTERING WISEMEN

Thought I'd stoke this thread back up as it's quite useful.

However if anyone could possibly help out, I would like to know how to get a track I've produced to be as perceptively loud as this >

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1CnsvNNdqI - Hazard - Platinum Shadows

I'm using Reason and I'm thinking, should I export my file with the compressor and mastering limiter turned off in the Mclass Mastering Suite to send to Cubase for mastering there? Or leave the compressor on and use my Voxengo Elephant to make my mix smash in Cubase?
Either way, I can't seem to get to the track to be as loud as Hazard's which is what I'm aiming for.
Is the best method by using multiband compression and then a limiter the way forward?? If so, what sort of levels are we talking about on the output of the compressor?

I ask for a quickfire solution because I'm busy as fuck at the moment and have about 2 hrs a night to spare at the moment.. I'll much appreciate it, if anyone can help I'll send you a box of Rizla or mystery prize. Cheers!

 

[dexter]

i personally dont master anything, if alls mixed down properly and ive paid attention to a spectrum through the writing process, i can crank a limiter and can get a mix as loud as professional tracks.

may i ask why the need to master your own tracks? is it simply volume?

 

[sausagenumber9]

i personally dont master anything, if alls mixed down properly and ive paid attention to a spectrum through the writing process, i can crank a limiter and can get a mix as loud as professional tracks.

may i ask why the need to master your own tracks? is it simply volume?

I use only compressors and stereo imagers and add sum gain.
Btw what programm do you use ? I'm just curious

 

[dexter]

I use only compressors and stereo imagers and add sum gain.
Btw what programm do you use ? I'm just curious

ableton live.

you know if you ever get signed the label masters right?

I've said it a few times now, the tune should be good without needing to slap on a compressor on the master!!

if it sounds better with a compressor, you then have the option to go through the tracks, and work on it until it sounds good without a compressor, most of the time its just a simple auditory illusion and all your getting is a small volume boost anyway..

surely if you went through the tracks you could achieve a better end product working on a few tracks inside the tune, then just slapping a compressor over the whole thing ...??

 

[groelle]

spot on dexter.

do a good mix at -3, -6 or even -1 db, and if you then need loudness for playing out, slap a limiter on. general guideline there, not more than 3db of limiting - depends on your track tho.

 

[sausagenumber9]

I add compressors to each level with stereoimager
like low mid high for example but i cut eq spectrum to 8 pieces witch means i use 8 compressors and 8 stereo imagers.
Basicly it funks up a little
Tho i use compressors and stereo per each sound too .
And yes i've heard that too" I've said it a few times now, the tune should be good without needing to slap on a compressor on the master!! "
But im workin on it
Thnx anyways

 

[Yobbo]

i personally dont master anything, if alls mixed down properly and ive paid attention to a spectrum through the writing process, i can crank a limiter and can get a mix as loud as professional tracks.

may i ask why the need to master your own tracks? is it simply volume?

Yes, volume alone. My mixdowns are fine, but as I say. I just want to be able to get my tracks to a level of loudness as found in the link I provided. Sounds like Hazard's track is clipping a tiny bit to me (the whole Platinum Shadows EP does in all fairness) but even when I push my limiter to the point it distorts I still can't seem to get a like for like level of loudness... Pretty annoying.

Anyone else got any ideas about this problem??

 

[dexter]

I add compressors to each level with stereoimager
like low mid high for example but i cut eq spectrum to 8 pieces witch means i use 8 compressors and 8 stereo imagers.
Basicly it funks up a little
Tho i use compressors and stereo per each sound too .
And yes i've heard that too" I've said it a few times now, the tune should be good without needing to slap on a compressor on the master!! "
But im workin on it
Thnx anyways

do you really need that much compressors? to me personally its a bad habit to just add fxs and compressors because you think its actually doing something..

ill repeat again what i read somewhere along these lines.. ''when your about to add an effect, stop, and think, what am i going to try and achieve by adding this effect'' if you struggle to answer, you probably dont need it..

less is more, but also, ''whatever works'' : )

 

[Subsequent]

Interesting thread,

Just a thought, it seems often that there are tonnes of discussions about how best to send your music/what to do to your tunes before sending them to an ME. Just to shed some light, we don't hate bus processing, and as someone rightly pointed out, a lot of big DNB club acts DO use a limiter on the mix bus during the creation of the track. The thing is, that a lot of these guys have developed the sound of DNB and their own personal productions in this method and it is a totally organic part of the production process for them..

What we do worry about, or at least me personally, is that people are throwing bus processing on because they read on a forum/magazine/video interview that this is what their "idols" do, and therefore they should just whack a limiter on, which can often destroy a new producers first finished mixdown for master, and thus creating a poor master.

There is also nothing wrong with asking for your ME to do something more brutal to the mix than he would normally, I have had many DNB and Dubstep guys tell me it's NOT overcompressed enough(!), if that's your sound, and I can do it in a controlled manner with better tools and monitoring, then that's all part of the service!


Hope this helps,

Joe Caithness / Subsequent Mastering

 

[logikz]

thank you for contributing. interesting.

i wont have a limiter on the master simply because it makes the samples sound different in the sequencer then outside which makes no sense to me at all. so i wouldnt do it but a lot of people do, fruity starts up with a limiter on the master which i think is a contributing factor.

 

[sam the dnb man]

Personally I wouldnt master a track myself unless I was in a decent acoustic environment and using an analog and digital hybrid studio.
It is also good for someone else to have an input as its a seperate pair of ears... sorta similar to referencing on different sets of monitors.

 

[SafeandSound]

Mastering is a much misunderstood practice. It also differs from client to client. Some people want masses of input and some very little at all.
It comprises quality control (removal of sonic defects), adjustment of the overall tone of a mix if required, possibly mix appraisal/feedback
if the client requests it. The biggest mis understanding of all is that you slap on a compressor, eq and limiter and it's bazzam.....Mastered.

1)Monitoring must be top notch (you cannot fix what you cannot hear)
2)Room must be flat in response (especially bottom end) Again unless you hear what is really in the audio file
you are just guessing and there is no place for guesswork in mastering.
3)Mastering needs good judgement between the merits and detriments of any EQ move as one resolution affects everything else in mastering
and not always in a positive way. This is why experience counts.

cheers