questions on sampling???

dareme

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#1
Hi my name is derick, and i have just bought the ez rollers and dj stakka highly acclaimed sample dvds.

For everybody's information, the samples in the ez rollers dvd is awesome, but i can't say too much about the instruments.

most of the instruments has only one or a few samples mapped across the keyboard, so the notes are stretched differently in time for each note like a regular sampler and of course time related modulation (like lfo modulation) are different in time for each note too.

I am hoping to get some advice if i should use the samples or not because when i hear drum and bass, most of the instruments with time related modulations are in time, which can only be done with synths. and with the sampler the notes get cut off for each note differently due to non multisampled dvds.

lastly, i wonder does the pros in drum and bass use samples instruments (when it is not multisampled)or at least ez rollers himself uses his own sample dvd when it is not multisampled.

Basically, if anyone buy the dvds i mentioned above, it is not multisampled and has the problem i mentioned above.

i wonder if i wasted money on the dvds???
 
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logikz

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#3
quote from blu mar ten on DOA

the amount of shit music flying around at the moment is overwhelming.
I hadn't been through my aim folder for ages, so i did it a couple of weeks ago.
deleted around 3gb of tracks - a couple of hundred tunes..Just utter shite. Got to the point i was just deleting everything by certain producers without even listening to it.

I've said it before and i'll say it again - internet sample packs are the bane of this genre. Yeah yeah - i know all the arguments people have in favour of them so save your breath, this is my opinion, and my opinion is they're a waste of time.

right now, people are looking for interesting and adventurous ideas and there's not many of them around. Get-rich-quick solutions like sample packs are not going to help anyone. Again - save your flames because you're not going to persuade me otherwise.

for your consideration, i got a 3 tracks from someone who posts on the grid a while back, and i've been sitting on them for ages because I couldn't make my mind up about them. I finally passed them on to a label who's comment was, "nice tracks - shame they've got those 'Grid drums' all over them"

make of that what you will
from this post, http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=597692&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

very interesting read
 

logikz

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#4
this is a reply to rocksteady saying using a synth called massive is the same as using a sample pack, and how the people that made the sample pack (nutone in this example) dont mind you using it

thats a shit analogy, NI massive is a synth ok rock?
to compare a synth to a cd full of pre-fab sounds a professional producer made, claiming its 'almost the same thing' is preposterous. synth is an instrument and the difference is astronomical. specially massive which has near inifinite modulation possibilities.

this is not about nutone.

a sample CD, or a pack as it were, a more accurate comparison is the drum and bass EJAY.
no difference really, pre-fab loops and hits, just whack them on there and out comes a tune. and then what have you accomplished?
i dont think EJAY minds at all either, in fact i beleive theyre pretty damn pleased with it.

there is a big market for EJAY too, doesnt necessarily mean you should fucking use it.

yes, everyone has used a sample cd at some point but there is a vital difference in the method:

you take a sample from anywhere, anywhere at all, process it, put it in a context, make it your own, this is i do not have a quarrel with, in fact, this is how its done in electronic music.

using a sample pack for your tune, without doing anything with the sounds, is not you making music, any more than using EJAY is. it sounds like music, it is in a way, but you as an artist has accomplished precisely nothing.
you as a playstation3 player might have clicked together a pretty swinging diddy. high score. bonus.

the sound gets crooked too, compare it to painting,
you have your canvas, right, a little collage of deep brown faeces colors youve smeared on there with some dark blue or whatever you found in the back of the shed, right, thats your tune,
and then somebodys stapled three hundred euro bills to it in the middle.
thats the sample pack you bought.


if everyone had the same attitude as me there wouldnt be a market for sample cds, that much is true
and the music would be all the more original for it.

ill clarify, if we make our own sounds, instead of using the same sample packs, your tune and mine will come out different from each other (originality, diversity, creativity, ) and youll benefit as a producer as well being that you have to make it sound good all by yourself.

i spend alot of time making my sounds, i do it everyday and ive got gear, i accumulated over the years that i like to use for it, you might say its a hobby of mine.
or a passion even, and to call my reasoning blunt in this matter is far from the truth.

its not about nutone, wether nutone is bothered with you using his sample,
or if you should be proud over producing with such 'meagre' means are both just as doubtful.

i wrote tunes for a long time using nothing but cooledit96, modplug tracker with generic PC speakers. at my moms house.
same as alot of us did, serum, grits, dbs, splinter, phuture-t, hi-lar, hipnotic, the list goes on to mickey finn and aphrodite.
they all wrote awesome tunes back then and still do.
 

Ketz

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#6
yeah its all about making ur own productions sounding unique - i think its a bit harsh to say "don't use internet sample packs at all" and tbh the EZ Rollerz sample pack is really good, it has a lot of nice breaks you can use subtly in ur tunes (ofcourse to make em your own you are better off slicing them, reprogramming them, processing them etc etc so they are not recognisable from the original sample)

a lot of the pros use "breaks" in their drums - what is a break? its a sample! and you can get these samples from sample packs - look at Chase & Status, look at Brookes Brothers (from the u tube tutorial vids) - Brookes Bro's even admit to taking "presets" from synths such as Massive and tweaking them to their own needs

at the end of the day as long as your trying to be original and not simply "cutting and pasting" samples and just sequencing someone elses sound i don't think there's a problem with it
 

LineOne

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#7
VS FUCKING T's all the way. I hardly use samples. Maybe a speech sample or a chopped up amen or some other kind of break. You use a sample and your work sounds familiar to others. the samplepacks i got are

EZ Rollerz
Zero-G Koncept And Funktion
David Carbone Drum And Bass Masterclass
Nu-Tone
Urban Ammunition

a few others aswell

and u know wat. wicked samples in every pack but ive never found a use for them. i think ive used one vocal that sais "damn" out of one of the packs.

Stick with vst's ten ur shit will sound origional. Luk at all the dj's nowadays. they all have thier own sound to thier tunes. U dont get that by using samples

Peace
 

logikz

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#8
no ketz you 'get these samples' from old funk, soul and hiphop records (mainly), this is were they originate from, sample packs geared towards drum and bass production is something altogether different

a preset from massive is nothing like using a sample cd, its an instrument youre playing, not a recording.
 

LineOne

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#9
You will also ge more recognition for your tunes if u use ur own shit. No point biggin up someone tunes wen half of it aint thier work.! i mean come on how easy is it to find a sample and chop it up onto a track. How hard is it to get the vst of your choice sounding exacly how you want it. More rewards will come from stuff of ur own.
 

Ketz

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#10
i still think theres no issues using a combination of both (samples and instruments), I heard that Twisted Individual used to use a lot of samples and just process the fuck out of them, infact i'm pretty sure i found the sample he used for "Twisted City" in a sample pack somewhere lol - each to their own :D (ps i'm not advocating the use of samples, all i'm saying is that its a bit unrealistic to take this "one blanket fits all policy") ;)

and also when i talk about samples i do not for one minute support stealing someone elses sounds and like i said cutting and pasting something someone else has made, sampling and processing is a skill in its own right, as is synthesis and creating sounds from scratch (so yeah in some ways having it ready in a sample pack can be seen by some as "cheating" - not me personally tho lol)

how many producers can hold their hands up and say "i made my tune 100% from scratch"? not many :) its a fine line as so much electronic music nowadays is based on sampling so if i use and amen loop from a sample pack, whats the difference between that and say me using the original break from the Winstons record?
 

logikz

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#11
its not a question of making every sound from scratch, and using samples is what it is all about.

i repeat:

you take a sample from anywhere, anywhere at all, process it, put it in a context, make it your own, this is i do not have a quarrel with, in fact, this is how its done in electronic music.

we source almost all of our material,
but id like to make clear, that what i mean is not that we go out to the garage and play our drums on a huge kit we got set up out there, plugged straight to tape (like macc does btw, how you like them apples),
its to do with crate digging, we sample our shit from old jazz, classical, experimental art music, soundtrack vinyl, we sample vstis and warp it through various peices of gear and so forth.
 

Sauberman

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#14
90% of the people who say using sample packs is bad have probably layered a Vengeance kick/snare with their own to beef it up a bit at times, with or without knowing it ;)
 

logikz

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#15
what i wonder is, if you only use samples from the same pack, and its a professional pack, like say nutones, is the mix also done then?
 

Ketz

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#16
i find samples from most packs - if used as they are will sound shit without some sort of processing or tweaking (unless ofcourse its sumthin like a remix pack where all the sounds have been made to fit with each other).
 

dareme

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#17
hi it's derick who posted this thread.
i understand all the reply i have got.

but my question is the so called instruments are not multi sampled so every note is stretched differently!!!

Why do they even put out a sample dvd with instruments like this. it is useful if you want random time related modulations flying around for each note and notes getting cut off differently due to non multisampled samples.

but isn't it kind of a scam saying it is a rated 5\5 sample dvd.

okay maybe 3\5 because of its sfx which is good but the instruments having the way mentioned above???

Does anybody want to use for example a bass instrument that is not multisampled when everything is stretched differently?

please advice
 
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#18
i find samples from most packs - if used as they are will sound shit without some sort of processing or tweaking (unless ofcourse its sumthin like a remix pack where all the sounds have been made to fit with each other).
Yeah, I don't think I've ever used a sample without atleast EQing it first.
 

Sauberman

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#19
Why do they even put out a sample dvd with instruments like this. it is useful if you want random time related modulations flying around for each note and notes getting cut off differently due to non multisampled samples.
Did you get lost on the way to electro house forum.com - this is dnb mate :D
 

Ketz

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#20
hi it's derick who posted this thread.
i understand all the reply i have got.

but my question is the so called instruments are not multi sampled so every note is stretched differently!!!

Why do they even put out a sample dvd with instruments like this. it is useful if you want random time related modulations flying around for each note and notes getting cut off differently due to non multisampled samples.

but isn't it kind of a scam saying it is a rated 5\5 sample dvd.

okay maybe 3\5 because of its sfx which is good but the instruments having the way mentioned above???

Does anybody want to use for example a bass instrument that is not multisampled when everything is stretched differently?

please advice
lol sorry mate u asked a question and we all went off on a tangent about vsts vs sample packs etc :D

i'm not sure if i fully understand you, sorry dude, firstly what program do you use to produce?

you're basically saying that your instruments (drum loops?) can only be pitched at a particular bpm to fit? have you tried time stretching them to fit (if you say turn the pitch up and that causes your beat to get out of sync with your track tempo, then time stretch it to fit the same space the original sample took) <--make any sense? soz man i'm slightly confused :confused:

in Reason EZ Rollers refill is not an issue as all the drums come in a rex format so they are ready sliced and you can pitch them up down accordingly without adjusting the tempo
 
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