Making sub bass?

Discussion in 'Production' started by football345, Feb 22, 2010.

  1. football345

    football345 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a track i am currently working on and its working quite well together as it is, im getting more happier with it all the time.

    In my head when i listen to it, it could do with the extra bass throughout the tune, followin the pattern i have at the moment, but just all low end so it will blend it together nicely.

    How would i go about doing this?

    I cant explain it very well. But i have my melody using the higher end sounds that i have and i want to immitate this with a complete low end of bass.

    Any help would be great cheers.
     
  2. CH3SH

    CH3SH CH3SH - Naphalm Audio

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bury St. Edmunds
    What you need is a low octave sine waveform oscillator (found within most synths)
    Plug in ya notes and compress and high pass it to beef it out
    Make sure you mix everything down plenty to give it all head room =]
    Usually -4db but to your own taste

    What programs are you using?
     
  3. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    227
    Location:
    Essex, England
    Yeah a simple sine wave on a low octave will do the trick. Make sure to eq it properly too, no need for any mid to high end on the frequency spectrum.
     
  4. football345

    football345 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Using Massive but also have Zeta+.

    Hmm sorry all new to this, understand a part of what you mean, but still not familiar with terms

    Thanks for the info
     
  5. CH3SH

    CH3SH CH3SH - Naphalm Audio

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2008
    Messages:
    462
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bury St. Edmunds
    Thats cool budd =]
    We were all there once lol
    Zeta+ is pretty good for subs
    Have a look to see if there are any tutorials on making subs with zeta+ on youtube
    Also check these plugins out - http://www.earthsidemassive.com/blog/category/vst-plugins/
    Theyre all free, just download the suite set =]
     
  6. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    227
    Location:
    Essex, England
    You can use pretty much any synth that has an oscillator. A sine wave is the one that will look like a smooth curve like line. You only need one of your oscillators on to do this. Then when placing it in your piano roll (where you write your notes) make sure it's in the same key as your lead and just highlight all the notes and lower it an octave or two ( so if you have your lead starting on B5, lower the bassline to B4-B3)
     
  7. 3xit

    3xit Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Messages:
    92
    Likes Received:
    2
    Don't eq your sub! I find when you start doing this the volume can tend fluctuate loads which can be an absolute pain to mix down....

    Sines are only 1 frequency anyways, so there should be no need to eq it
     
  8. football345

    football345 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the advice both of you. How would i check what frequencies to be hitting and how would i check if i am?.

    I've stuck it in the piano roll and have done what i need to do, but can't exactly hear much.

    Im guessing thats normal, if i could hear a lot then it would be in the high end

    What sort of frequencies should i be hitting and how would i check?
     
  9. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    227
    Location:
    Essex, England
    I would strongly suggest you eq absolutely every sound you ever put into a track. Everything should sit in it's own frequency range. Without eq'ing you sub bass it sits on the spectrum all the way from low end to high end. Just because a sub bass is only low end, if it weren't eq'd then it would still take up other frequencies even though you can't hear it, causing problems in the mix. Usually everything in the frequency spectrum above 150hz should be cut completely for sub bass.
     
  10. thedjnifty

    thedjnifty Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    3,266
    Likes Received:
    46
    Mixed opinions on the eqing of the sub ...

    What's the final verdict?!

    Will the higher end of the sub really cause that much of a problem in conflicting in frequency with higher end synths etc.?

    I believe that NOT equing the sub will give you a fuller weightyer low end although the question above still stands and really makes or breaks the theory ... ?
     
  11. moriaty

    moriaty Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,464
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    between a low hum and a high whine
    right
    3xit is spot on that sine waves are single frequencies, and equing can brake it. if you add an eq after the synth that's playing the sine, the level will fluctuate for every different note.
    fletch's point about needing only the low end for the sub is also right. but with an untreated sine being only one frequency, there wouldnt be any higher frequencies to remove. so equing wouldnt help.

    treating sub bass is very case specific. sometimes you want it to be very prominent and without any higher elements, sometimes you want it to just blend sneakily with your mid bass or reese. in the latter case, you're right, you dont want anything bellow that. but if you're making a dubby piece, you want your sub to be hitting higher by using richer waveforms, and then eq holes for any elements that live in the same range.
     
  12. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    That's just so wrong. A sinewave sub bass note only has 1 frequency at any given time. There is absolutely no need to equalize it because it already sits in the sub area due to the notes it is played at (ie. 1 octave lower than you "other" bass). If you try to EQ a sine wave you will only make some notes quieter than others, there is no sound sculpting or shaping happening. If you're trying to make a sub presence out of something else than sine waves it's a whole another matter but EQ'ing everything for the sake of it is just superstitious.

    edit: when it comes to everything sitting in it's own range in the spectrum, you're right. But even then It's pretty futile to LP/HP just because you think something might be there to interfere with other elements. And it is better to first try to fix the problem with instrumentation and composition (switching the notes up or down) rather than EQing. Only do EQ'ing or dynamic processing when you have a problem with something, not just because.
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2010
  13. druu

    druu Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, West Oz
    I low cut my sub at roughly 50-60hz and hi cut at 120-150hz. I recently noticed if I didn't hi cut the sub, there was a stray frequency in the upper range, but then again I don't always use a sine wave. ;)
     
  14. moriaty

    moriaty Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2003
    Messages:
    4,464
    Likes Received:
    22
    Location:
    between a low hum and a high whine
    50hz is way high man. id say 30 tops.
     
  15. druu

    druu Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, West Oz
    I cut everything below 30-35 during mastering and if ever one day i get anything cut on vinyl, it'll be ready for it. :) (apparently anything near 30hz ruins the vinyl cutting process, I read that on the internet so it must be true!) :p
     
  16. subprime

    subprime Dysjoint

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,087
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    NZ
    In my mind I see an eq on a simple sine sub as a subtle band pass or band reject filter.

    I read somewhere that you should be careful about boosting sub frequencies just because you can't hear them, which seems obvious now but didn't before. It was something to do with damaging speaker cones....? True? It makes sense I guess.

    Some of my first eq presets for sub were crazy shapes with boosts and roll offs.....now I just have use a flat eq with a roll off somewhere depending on the highest note the sub plays.

    I am still not sure about levels when it comes to sub. If I adjust it so it sounds good to my ears, in Voxengo span it's hitting 5 db or more above the rest. I'm listening on dt770's which are spec'd down to 5hz. Normally I would follow my ears but sub is a different case?
    Does that sound wrong, seeing the sub peaking above the rest.


    Freeware - subatomic is a simple plugin that gives you a usable sub for adding some low end now while you're trying to create your own patches. I think the short release sub preset with the volume decay altered, I can't remember exactly. Play around with it.
     
  17. Oria

    Oria Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2009
    Messages:
    349
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Cyprus
    To date I like to filter down a samples to get a bass tone, then use that rather than generate a fresh tone :)
    music is primarily about listening, watching/seeing graphic displays is for assistance to alert you to something only. A slightly clipping channel could sound great because of the artifacts added, but if you went purely by the visual display you would turn it down. So go by your ears but listen on multiple setup.
     
  18. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Messages:
    3,971
    Likes Received:
    227
    Location:
    Essex, England
    Well I'm a guy who can accept and hold his hands up when I'm wrong..... I guess I was wrong on that one.
     
  19. druu

    druu Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    397
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Perth, West Oz
    There are no rules: do what you think sounds right, everyone has their own approach. :)
     
  20. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    Yeah i might have come across a bit arrogant on my last post, sorry. If the eq on a sub makes it work for you then by all means go ahead. After all it can work in a same way as keyboard tracking would, lowering the volume of higher notes.

    I just cringe every time someone says they eq or compress everything. :p