fruity loops mastering

rob_del_terror said:
i find people that can't get on with a program and keep moving onto another always post some drivel like that. it didn't work for you, we get it, don't come spouting shite. i know people regularly producing shit hot tunes in fruity. they took the time to learn the program.

fruity is not for quitters.
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ive been using cubase since 1999

im not talking shite i said in my post ive tested it i suggest you do the same then come back to me with a decent argument

im a full time music producer and have been for some years now its my job to test new gear when it comes out ive never used fruity to make a track as the tests i did on it came out with shit results

if u like using it then thats your choice and i dont care like i said the guy asked for some advice so i gave it to him
 
Firstly I'm not on either side of this aurgument so i'll try and give a balanced view on how I see it.

Firstly in favour of Vapour, theis no questioning his talent (and with that obivously goes a lot of knowledge) so don't mess or he might cut you with some paper!
Second I read an article in Sounds on Sounds with Tony Coleman ( London Elektricity)think it was quite a few years back and he had done excatly the same thing in that he tested a number ofdifferent DAWS(although I dont think he metioned FL studio). He found LOGIC and CUbase to be the best sounding in his opinoin and so thats what he uses.

On the other Hand Vapour you said you have used CUBASE since 1999 from that i take that you tested the differnet DAWS around that time .Is it not possible that tihngs might have changed since then Reason and FL studio may have made some changes. I know Logistics and Nutone both use Reason. SPOR fl studio.

To sum up I think all that matters is that as a producer your happy with what your using, I think people get so defensive about their DAWS is that they invest firstly a lot of Money but perhaps more importantly a lot time in learning how they work and so dont like them getting critised. This is coming form a FL studio user, Im quiet happy with it but then I'm only a year and half into producing so might not know any better and Im jsut trying to have some fun along the way, anyway come the summer going to ungrade to a Imac and Logic. WHy? Cos it looks nice and I know a lot of proffessionals use it.
 
its a ridiculous claim, that his tests are so conclusive that even 'any idiot can see' that what hes saying is the truth. not only because there are plenty of examples of big tunes written in fruity but also cos i dont think dj vapor did any tests.
in fact that very test is avaliable on doa from some guy proving in a semi scientifical type of way that there is no problem with fruitys output.
and he could be ravi shankar for all i care, just cos you can write a good tune doesnt mean you know even the first thing about daw sound engines and it certainly doesnt mean you are very good at discussing it.
 
no proof, nothing convinced. Some logical evidence why FL should have a 'shit' engine (preferably from a recent version) should clear a lot up in these endless discussions with people claiming the truth. And that shouldn't be a statement like 'all the pros say nay or yea so that's the evidence'. in the end that's all but anything concrete.
 
Reactor Grits said:
no proof, nothing convinced. Some logical evidence why FL should have a 'shit' engine (preferably from a recent version) should clear a lot up in these endless discussions with people claiming the truth. And that shouldn't be a statement like 'all the pros say nay or yea so that's the evidence'. in the end that's all but anything concrete.
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I can't remember the source, so it's highly questionable, but I heard once Sub Focus uses FL studio.
 
vapour 36 hertz said:
lol

all this talk about using vintage warmer and isotope ozone is a case for my point as if you use good samples and a god DAW then you wont need to add any plug ins to your final master - any mastering engineer worth speaking to will tell u this

all these 3rd party mastering plug ins are not good to put on your final track as any mastering engineer will have a hard time trying to work with any masters that have these kind of things on as they do some horrendous things to sounds to achieve this "out of the box" home mastering
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The guy posting was asking how to push his tunes and make them louder. The suggestion of "PSP Vintage Warmer" was with the assumption that we wanted a solution to do this himself and that he would not be sending them to a mastering house. Obviously the best answer would be "send your tracks to a professional mastering house and to have them mastered". But not everyone has the money, nor has tunes of such a high caliber to be sending them to a professional to be mastered. I'm sure the original poster knows that the best rout for a professional sounding master would be to send it to a professional to be mastered.

And yes, if you are sending tunes out to be mastered you don't want any limiters or fancy vst's pushing the shit out of your tune.
 
vapour 36 hertz said:
all this talk about using vintage warmer and isotope ozone is a case for my point as if you use good samples and a god DAW then you wont need to add any plug ins to your final master - any mastering engineer worth speaking to will tell u this

all these 3rd party mastering plug ins are not good to put on your final track as any mastering engineer will have a hard time trying to work with any masters that have these kind of things on as they do some horrendous things to sounds to achieve this "out of the box" home mastering - if you need to put these kind of things on your tracks then again you need to have a serious look at your original sounds and mixdown as u should not need ot add any kind of "mastering" to a trck that has a proper clean mix
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Here we go again with the, "only the pros can do quality Masters"...

cough**BS**cough

I'm sorry.. but I've heard what one of the best in the UK had to offer when it came to "Mastering" my track (he's one of the biggest Engineers in the Breakbeat Industry over there, his name eludes me atm)... and his work didn't sound ANY better than what I did with Ozone 3... period (I ABed his version VS. my version on multiple setups and his version sounded no different). I've been in an expensive studio and watched a "pro" butcher my track with his crap Multi-Band Comp "tricks" and his overbearing Limiting.

The "pro engineers" want the guys at home to think they're needed otherwise they'd be out of a LOT of potential work!

A Limit can be done well or poorly... the truth of the matter is that "Home Producers" have access to the SAME software/hardware as ANY "pro", so **farts** to the idea that it takes a non home studio to do quality Limits.


Mixing is another story alltogether, but slapping a Limiter on a properly mixed down track and getting a quality result is easier than jerking off.
 
Protoplasym said:
Here we go again with the, "only the pros can do quality Masters"...

cough**BS**cough

I'm sorry.. but I've heard what one of the best in the UK had to offer when it came to "Mastering" my track (he's one of the biggest Engineers in the Breakbeat Industry over there, his name eludes me atm)... and his work didn't sound ANY better than what I did with Ozone 3... period (I ABed his version VS. my version on multiple setups and his version sounded no different). I've been in an expensive studio and watched a "pro" butcher my track with his crap Multi-Band Comp "tricks" and his overbearing Limiting.
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Hes obviously not one of the best if you can top it at home. Thats not meant as a dig mate, but just because you can master one of your own tracks it doesnt make the entire industy obsolete.
 
motion audio said:
Hes obviously not one of the best if you can top it at home. Thats not meant as a dig mate, but just because you can master one of your own tracks it doesnt make the entire industy obsolete.
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This is my point. We don't need someone else to spend 10 mins slapping a Limiter on our tracks when we can do it on our own easily enough.

Lol, has nothing to do with it... my track was expertly Mixed = makes the Limit easy as pie.
My Mixdown work didn't leave him anything to do but slap a Limiter on the Master.. same as what I did in the comfort of my own home... and whatever software/hardware he used, it sounded no different/better than lil 'ol Ozone 3.
 
MY 2P

All the DAWs sound different.

Don't put anything on your master buss if your going to send the track to a professional mastering engineer. Although using PSP vintage warmer or any other "mastering" plug-in is fine if your just checking your mix against commercial releases or too play out is fine.

Fruity and reason do sound a bit weak against the other DAWs. Things like the algorithms they use for summing make small differences. The differences are pretty minor though, a good ear will make more difference to any mix.

and as for mastering engineers, their the best for a reason. If we were all that good, we'd all be charging £80 a track.
 
Now I'm defenitly getting interested in this whole thread. I mean, @ vapour: why not have any effects on your master? A limiter can be helpfull tough?
I wasn't saying I am using the whole Ozone package or T-Racks package, I'm only using the limiter which comes with it.
And that's all because that was the Limiter that did the job for me, currently my favorite limiter is the one from Sonnox.
And I'm not saying that every time my master channel gets that same limiter, only when it's needed.
 
H*product said:
as for mastering engineers, their the best for a reason. If we were all that good, we'd all be charging £80 a track.
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If everyone could clean their own houses, they wouldn't have to pay a maid to do it... oh wait..


Mastering for Vinyl is a different animal... Mastering in the digital realm for a properly mixed down track is for someone who has ears, a decent limiter with a SA, and knows the basics. It took me a couple years of messing around (some take longer than others.. like me) before I figured out how to do my Limits... but now, doing the "Master" takes as long as it takes for me to pull Ozone in on the Master Channel and bring up my preset.

Hell, early in the Mixing process... I start referencing the track with Ozone turned on.
Limiting a track is not worth $10/track much less $160.

To those who feel paying someone such money to do such minimal work: you're well entitled to do so... but just because you feel it's worth it doesn't mean that experienced self taught Producers can't do it in the comfort of their own home with the same quality results. If you want to pay someone top dollar to do what I feel should be free because imo it's easy to do, then by all means: I won't criticize you for it... but don't try to make noobs think that paying someone that kind of money is the only way to get "pro results" because imo, that's misleading.

Analogy: there are people who build their own computers. There are companies that charge upwards of $2-4K to build custom "gaming" machines because there are people who don't know how to build one themselves... does this mean that people at home can't build the same quality machines... of course not.


penny
penny
 
I guess by the same token in regard to my analogy... if there are folks who don't feel like buying a quality program like Ozone OR prefer their limit to be done with expensive Hardware means... or don't feel like taking the time to learn how to do it...

THEN yes, I agree: send your track to someone who knows how to do a limit... and I suppose $160 for a quality limit for someone in those shoes isn't that bad of a deal.


OP, if you're EVER going to pay someone to "Master" your track, make sure you have NOTHING on the Master Channel... nothing, no EQ, no COMP, no Limit, nada.
 
There’s actually a post on DOA right now regarding the quality and sound of different DAW sound engines... the post didn't start off that way, but ended up like that. There's only been like a million posts like this before on DOA.... so if you read one you read them all. But it's got some heated discussions and is mos def good for a laugh.

http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=666627
 
Ok this is going a bit far from the original topic but once I've gone down this road it had to be walked all the way.

Fruity 9 and Reaper 3.0something.

2 stab samples layered on top of each other, starting on 1.2.0. Exact same samples in both DAWs. No processing, pitch shifting, enveloping, only summing the 2 samples together to test the sound engine. Rendering 512pt sampling interpolation, 32bit floating point.

When you invert either one of the results and mix them together in soundforge for example, the result is silence. From infinity to -168,57dB at most. And i dare say that is inaudible in 32 bit floating point, no matter how many layers there would be. That's less than my DA going to the monitors. I'm not going to post audio because anyone can repeat this test with FL9 demo and Reaper evaluation version if you dont believe me. If I'm really bored tomorrow I'll wareze cubase & ableton live for the test.

Vapour if you're reading this I have huge respect for your work and your tunes (especially love the studio pics I've seen) but if you are as professional as you say you really should get your facts straight and stop saying things like that. What's more, if someone is mastering inside fruity, the sound engine doesnt do anything, the plugins do all the processing when you work on a single file. There is no sampling interpolation that way, and hence the "weak fruity sound engine" isnt involved in the process.
 
Thanks Kama!
I was thinking about doing something like that. Just because I didnt believed everything of this thread. :D
 
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