Drum and bass beat possible with compound time?

Discussion in 'Production' started by SynesthesiaC, Jan 9, 2009.

  1. SynesthesiaC

    SynesthesiaC Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    I started making a remix of Beethovens Moonlight Sonata the other day and I realized that I found it pretty much impossible to create a drum and bass rhythm with the drums that would fit compound time. The piece is in 12/8. And also many other songs that I wanted to remix like house of the rising sun or nothing else matters are also in compound time ( 6/8 )

    So is it possible to create a drum and bass type rhythm in compound? Anyone know of any songs that have already done it? I'm not gonna give up, loads of good songs are written in this time signature.
     
  2. Indefatigable

    Indefatigable Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2008
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Rooting Tooting SW, UK
    Pretty much all dance music is in 4/4 it kinda has to be to be able to mix. Having said that using something like Recycle you could make it fit into a 4/4 drum pattern, allbeit with a bit of manipulation here and there.

    Using things like syncopation you can mix something that isn't 4/4 with a 4/4 tune, you'd just need to do the maths to know where they should sync up again and EQ it well so it didn't sound poorly matched.

    Stuff like Body Rock that have shuffle rhythms are as close to getting none 4/4 time signatures I reckon. Squarepusher and the like have done the odd non standard time signature tune.
     
  3. SynesthesiaC

    SynesthesiaC Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    So its basically impossible to create DnB beats in compound time I take it? Or can anyone find any examples?

    Becasue I've been working on it, and although its very hard to do I think it might be possible, and if done properly could open up an entirely different type of DnB style beat with a very unique sound. As the compound rhythm is so different to 4/4.

    So anyone with cubse, set the time sig to say 6/8 for example and give it a go. Coz I'm getting close, But nothing worthy of posting. U gotta let the main beat drop on fractions of the main reats, rather than just the offbeat.
     
  4. dolphinslovejaz

    dolphinslovejaz New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just look up some drum beats in compound timings for inspiration. If it helps imagine you're in 6/4, rather than 12/8. Or alternatively if you want to go down the experimental avenue you could try writing using additive metre (4+3+5/12, 4+2+4+2/12...etc). It all depends where you want to take this song really.

    You could also just alternate between time signatures. You just need to sit down and do some math then decide where you want to take this, because you can go anywhere with it really.

    EDIT: Not sure how accurate this list is, but there's a list of songs in 12/8 on wikipedia.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12/8 - You could always give a listen to those for inspiration.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2009
  5. ScottyEightSix

    ScottyEightSix HUGE EARS > COMEDY CHIN

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    13,060
    Likes Received:
    623
    Location:
    CHINFORD
    Isnt bodyrock and timewarp 12/8
     
  6. subprime

    subprime Dysjoint

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    3,087
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    NZ
    12/8 shouldn't be so difficult, as you could approach it as three bars of 4 (albeit 8th notes) So three kick/snare patterns per bar.
    6/8 or 3/4 .....or 5/4 or whatever else is a different story.
    Tried a bit of 6/8 once with a big detuned lead and a sub, just messing around and sounded dnb in a way but the feel was just strange.
    If you can pull it off it'll be pretty original for sure.
     
  7. Bathos

    Bathos New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    you could also try it as triplets in the bar maybe? i just gave it a quick try with a basic dnb beat and they kinda work but sounds a little strange but i put any effort in making it sound nice so it may be better for you!
    the problem with treating it as 3 bars of four it then Beethoven's arpeggios would be accented in strange places and the cords would change in slightly odd places but that could make it sound well cool to be fair.
    venetian snares is the king of 7/4 though! i don't think that title will be stolen soon
     
  8. SynesthesiaC

    SynesthesiaC Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay so I started trying to mix moonlight sonata in compound. Its real hard. All I can really do for the compound bit is some light hats over the top, then change it to 4/4 when the main beat kicks in. The transaction from the original compound to normal time sounds a bit odd though.

    Heres what I got so far after an hour or so of fiddling around: http://stashbox.org/598482/compound.mp3

    Anyone think they could do anything with the brief intro bit to add an actual DnB type beat? Or is it pretty much not possible U think?
     
  9. DanDnB

    DanDnB Bass and Drums

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Messages:
    243
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Miami, Florida, USA
    Hey Synes,

    Why dont you slice up the symphony in such a manner that it matches your 4/4? It could sound half decent with a good beat, play with the tempo to get it to match.

    I dunno...
     
  10. Devianity

    Devianity New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think the problem might be the tempo of moonlight sonata - it's a topic of fair debate, though most put it somewhere around 70bpm, which i guess doesn't lend itself too well to d&b.

    You could speed it up of course but u might sacrifice the vibe. Hey, kudos for trying anyway, it's an irresistible piece of music.
     
  11. RevTech

    RevTech Butthole=output transduce

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    AZ
    I swear nyiddle made a beat with 12/8 or something.

    look him up on youtube if you don't know
     
  12. motion audio

    motion audio Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Northampton
    Still in 4/4 but in tripplets so it sounds a bit like it.
     
  13. Sammy_Dodger

    Sammy_Dodger Mr Ed

    Joined:
    May 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,559
    Likes Received:
    127
    Location:
    Peckham
    they only way to do it fella is to choppety-chop!! :)

    bodyrock is written in a form of 6/8 (which basically makes it sound like triplets)
     
  14. RevTech

    RevTech Butthole=output transduce

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2008
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    33
    Location:
    AZ
    Yeah, I really like that feel to it.

    I think it's a bit harder to mix tho?...
     
  15. djdizzy

    djdizzy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2012
    Messages:
    208
    Likes Received:
    46
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    sorry to resurrect such an old thread but in case others are looking for examples of dnb with time signatures outside of 4/4. here's a dnb track i stumbled across that's 7/4

     
  16. smoothassilk

    smoothassilk Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    155
    I guess you could see something like Noisia - Diplodocus or Stamp Out as compound time, but it's a bit ambiguous because it's both swung and straight at the same time.

    Either it's in fast 12/8 with some weird 2 against 3 rhythms, or it's in 4/4 with some weird 3 against 2 rhythms.
     
  17. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, AUS
    Its straight 4/4.... with some triplet bass phrasing and a swing beat
     
  18. smoothassilk

    smoothassilk Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    155
    Swing beats can be considered compound time, it's just they're not normally written that way.
     
  19. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, AUS
    i know, but for dance music, 99% simple unless youre apex twin. Even then, swing is irrelevant to whether its compound or simple, in a signature less than 16/-.

    Both those tunes are simple with a swing beat and a bassline that compliments it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  20. smoothassilk

    smoothassilk Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2013
    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    155
    The thing is, only dance music producers see 12/8 or 6/8 as complicated.

    The concept of swing is a more advanced than just thinking about it in compound time.

    12/8 and 6/8 are really, really easy- just as easy as 4/4, and people dance to them all the time in pop music.
    3/4 is marginally harder, but not really, it's only because it's fallen out of fashion in the past century- people used to waltz all the time, it was what they did before popular music.
    Even 9/8 is legit if you think of it as compound 3 time.

    The only difficult and weird sounding time signatures are the ones which can't be subdivided into either 3's or 2's: 5 beats, 7 beats, 11 beats, 15 beats etc...
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014