Funk, flava and quotes

Discussion in 'Drum & Bass' started by Dustek, Aug 30, 2006.

  1. Dustek

    Dustek Finished the PhD

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    I've been listening to a load of old skool hiphop recently (<94). Then I started listening to old skool dnb jungle again.

    As everybody should know, back in the day, dnb was full of quotes from hiphop which in turned quoted funk. Rave music for white kids who like hiphop as we've heard.

    The first time you heard it, you might not have know it was dnb but you certainly recognised that sample from somewhere. It may have been too fast, too dark and too complex, but it was... 'funky' and had 'flava'... Chuck D's lawyers might not have approved but I'm sure his head nodded to the beat.

    Nowadays though, most dnb is generated directly on a computer and there's little crossover.

    Instead of nodding our heads at fertile quotes of non-dnb tunes, we get our knickers in a twist about the twentieth dubplate remix of Warhead and throwaway 'dancefloor pressure' tunes that producers churn out in Reason, Andy C plays a couple of times, punters pay 10quid for, every idiot and his friend plays on their internet mixes and then disappear. Where are the future classics?

    The biggest lp last year in terms of dnb scene and non-scene impact was Hold Your Colour. Full of quotes and samples (Escape From Planet Monday was meant to have the same impact and was even more derivative, but as it was overproduced shite, it didn't.)

    You might want to call Pendulum 'wobble clownstep' but if you do, then you need to get a girlfriend and stop spending so much time on DOA. Pendulum brought freshness because they looked out of the scene for their inspiration. Their music is 'funky'... and makes people smile (which in turn makes the frigging hoody brigade unhappy).

    Grime, dubstep, breakcore and ragga jungle artists are nicking samples and quotes from left to right and their music sounds alive, dangerous and underground.

    Too much dnb sounds like its made by frustrated virgins in basements with too much expensive sound equipment - who care too frigging much about exactly how a Reese is made and too little about the funk. They know their dnb from A-Sides to Zero Tolerance but you can't tell that they know their music.

    There is so much music that can be mined for treasure. Dnb wasn't born in generated sounds. It was born in samplers.

    My two frigging cents and thoughts.

    Yep, I'm an idiot. :towelie:
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2006
  2. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    not at all , interesting thoughts I say.
     
  3. deadaelus

    deadaelus Laughter in the Slaughter

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    I agree with a lot of what you have to say. I give you an 80%.

    I do have to disagree on a few points. The "biggest LP of the year" was definately not Pendulum's Hold Your Colour. There was certainly some better contenders for best album of the year in 2005: "Second Sun - Calibre", "Rare Grooves LP - Bassbin Various", "The Legacy - Teebee", "Cruel & Unusual - Black Sun Empire", "Weapons of Mass Creation 2 - Hospital Various", MDZ005 - Metalheadz Various", "Calyx - No Turning Back", "3 The Hardway EP - Renegade Hardware Various", "Welcome To Violence - Violence Various"...and i am sure i missed a few that could be considered as contenders. And as far as biggest impact i would side with Teebees Legacy, Calibre's Second Sun or Calyx No Turning Back, hardly ever did i hear a track from hold your colour in a mix more frequently than a single tune off one of these three albums. The only reason Pendulums album had the impact is because the DnB scene is so one dimentional. People are producing DnB that "sounds like its made by frustrated virgins in basements with too much expensive sound equipment", cause they wanna sound like _____ or _____ . Too many people were trying to get a "pendulum" sound, so the pendulum crew did something completely different for an album. That i can appreciate.

    I disagree a bit on your complaint that producers dont use enough samples anymore. What about all the work with live vocalists, i think that this is taking it a step further than a clever sample. Vocalists like Jenna G, MC Fats, Lariman, and Verse can sit down and help build a track before they layer a vocal overtop of it. And as for rehashing the same samples over and over i cant say i am a big fan. Take a classic like "Love & Happiness" from Marvin Gaye...would you like to hear another tune built of a sample from Mr.Gaye's classic? I think it has been done too many times. I agree that i like fresh samples, dont get me wrong, but if it is gonna be another tune with a sample that has been played out, i got no patience. I think people need to look into the realm of movies, TV, and pop culture infused advertising to find new samples. You cant tell me a scary quote from bush over a really dark and evil tune wouldnt be scary for years to come? Cause it would.
     
  4. Dustek

    Dustek Finished the PhD

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    I say biggest about Hold Your Colour, not best. It certainly outsold everything else. It might not have the biggest influence on producers in the future but it probably will, if you're right about every virgin copying their sound. The album certainly sounded fresh to me, unlike a lot of tracks in the techstep rut.

    The sameness sound problem predates Pendulum...

    As for sampling - I agree, the same sounds can't be sampled again and again (well apart from the Amen) but there's no frigging crossover anymore apart from cack quality dnb 'remixes'. I don't want Drop It Like Its Hot with a broken beat but I do want somebody to take samples from the White Stripes, Snoop, Eminem and even frigging Gwen Steffani and use them in quality (not novelty) dnb tracks... as Public Enemy, De La Soul and NWA were sampled back in the day.

    Too few tracks have vocals IMHO.
     
  5. deadaelus

    deadaelus Laughter in the Slaughter

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  6. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    I agree with this 'techstep rut' comment, and the fact that sameness has always been a problem. Lets look at how this music evolved though, it was often about someone coming up with a brilliant idea and then everyone copying them, and a sound is born and perfected (hopefully). Then the next thing comes along. Its always been popular to then blame said innovators for causing the sameness. ShyFX got caned for it after Original Nuttah first came out and people then rejected ragga sounds as too populist.
     
  7. munkeyman420

    munkeyman420 Munkey C

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    Amen to all of your opinions. Not just because the main part of songs i enjoy spinning are vocals and liquid funk beats, but because of the originality involved alone. Groups like London Elektricity and Pendulum who werent afraid to go outside the ever widening lines of dnb and create there own individual sound is just an extreme come up from the same sound freqs and beat structures ive seen in so many other artists. Its actually a large inspiration to read others feeling the same issues ive had with dnb since ive wired myself into it. To speak my own personal opinion, i think that if DnB went massively mainstream, it couldnt be a better time, i mean just go download any new song, not only is it all the same rinsed out lyrics and music play as 2-3 even 5 years ago, but its not advancing in mind at all. Its geared towards Sex, Drugs, Violence, or what the media portrays as "love". If DnB were to go Mainstream, it would instill a lot more structure to what music should actually all be about.. THE MUSIC .. not the shitty 2 bit lyrics or the repititious 2 minute made beats.. i feel that as long as DnB would go mainstream and not turn into heroin binge music.. it might just play a better role in not only peoples lives, but the way there brain works might not be geared as much towards drinking, sex, our ever constricting rights being broken, or the way we live (or are told to live) our lives. Believe it or not, but music Does effect peoples mind. It does change you and make you think a certain way. And from my sights, ive seen nothing but good energy from DnB no matter what genre.
    And as for new sound, i dont fear what could become of dnb in the near future, because as long as i still got my Hospitalized, Q-Project, Weapons Of Mass Creation, and my Jenna G ill be happy forever :jazz_band :tosser: big ups to originality.
     
  8. moriaty

    moriaty Active Member

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    yeah, great thoughts Dustek mate, but whilst you goin all out on "virgin producers in basements with expensive equipment, that bring out souless sameness", you forgot a important factor...
    that some people actually LIKE this sameness...
    and i reckon your comments target techy stuff, which to someone who doesnt appreciates em do indeed sound the same..
    well, every tune on the pendulum album did sound to me like a copy of slam, and Escape planet clown was just a tragedy in terms of musicality and insipration..
    and on the same note, i can tell the huge difference between a Phace tune, and a State of Mind tune, to a Corrupt Souls one..and if youre still shouting "but they sound ze same!", thats because you dont like the style.
    fair enuff, no one asked you to like it..
    but i dont understand how something YOU dont like is automaticly branded as non inspired and rubbish..

    and to answer more specifficaly to the threads subject, about samples and quotes from non dnb tunes, check tunes by Counterstrike. Metal tunes have been striped and re arranged into glorious dnb thrashers.
    Dont like it? neither do i..i never liked metal, and i was laughing at metal kids back in school..
    that doesnt mean it aint good and un inspired..its just that my personal preferences are different...

    Yes, my opinion is that Pendulum is frikin woble clownpoo, but i do have a girlfriend, and my last visit at DOA was like 2 years ago...hm...something wrong goin on here, eh?

    im not havin a go at you, but i cant stand reading people runt how this kind of people are loosers because they make this kind of tunes, and arent trying to make anthems...
    maybe they DONT want to make anthems mate! thought about that?
    maybe they want to make a tune (not a song), which is goin to be heard from a small label boss, he'll rock to it, release it, sell 1000 copies, then played at small gigs for like 5 months, and then forgoten.
    To my opinion, thats better than making a super likebale infectious riffage anthem, which is goin to be battered for years upon years.
    why spend all this energy into one tune, when you can make 20 at the same time.
    If you know that your tunes got an expiry date, then youre always need to look forward. You finished a tune, good, start work on the next one. Dont just stand there, listening your masterpiece anthem, and jerking off to the idea of how cool you are, and how many good reviews you gonna get in Knowledge..
    no no no no...
    we dont need any more anthems..
    ive got far greater respect for a producer that made 100 tune that sold 1000 slabs each, than for someone who made a golden hit, and decided to milk its bones out, by doin as many rmx of it as the copies the original sold..

    oh, and dont forget.. beeing virgin, means frustration, and frustration leads to anger, and anger leads to bangin dancefloor tunes...
    think bout this..
    peace
     
  9. Dustek

    Dustek Finished the PhD

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    Gordo, I'm not attacking techstep as such. I've got a load of tech tunes and listen to them from time to time. Good music for driving or killing your neighbours to.

    I would say that tech dominants the scene and forms its visiting card.

    When people ask me what music I listen to and I say "drum & bass" I can see them cringe because they automatically equate it with sweaty 17 year olds in a basement on speed climbing the walls to thunderous artifical basslines and drums that want to kill somebody (letting their frustration out).

    Techstep has its place and is generally an interesting subgenre.

    I do feel it has inordinate place and that its most vocal fans are a bunch of aggresive whiney kids who use the word "clownstep" more than the word "sex". That is not targetted at you Gordo BTW.

    When I play my nondnb friends people some LTJ Bukem, early Roni Size, Jenny G or Pendulum, they go, "that's not drum & bass". I've seen people come to a Marky gig not knowing that they were listening to drum & bass. They thought it was some kind of latin house!

    Its not because they're ignorant (I know shit all about gabber apart from it being madly fast but I'm pretty sure its listeners would argue that its as diverse as dnb), but because drum & bass is stuck between two conceptually extremes. The accessible and radio friendly (labelled "clownstep") and the tech with perhaps Photek in between.

    I'm not saying techy is shite but its stuck in a rut and so is half of the scene that labels everything else clownstep.

    That said, most of dnb is stuck in a rut. Every time I read a review about a track that contains the phrase "dance floor pressure" I know I'm going to hate it because its going to be as structured a frigging electro-house track. Almost everybody from Roni Size & Dillinja to your DOA virgin is guilty of repetiveness.

    I agree about remixes being milked, there are too many of them but some remixes are better than originals so are worth the time. Most however are throwaway novelties to be dropped because the classic has (or is perceived to have gone stale).

    As far as making classic tracks is concerned, its better to try and make something to bring the music a step forward rather than make something mediocre, that will be forgotten about after a month of caning.

    PS Black metal fans love to argue about whether a band is "true" or not. They also need to get laid.

    I need to go and listen to some liquid funk, then some jumpup and then some classic jungle.

    And I need to burn some cds for my car as I've mostly got steppers there.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  10. apples

    apples WINNER is back ;)

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    wow i have missed dnbforum :D

    so when are we gonna hear your tunes??? :teeth:
     
  11. Dustek

    Dustek Finished the PhD

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    Probably never. I've got four in the works, you've heard one, but I can never hope to have the time to work on them unless I quit work and having a girlfriend.

    Also my eyes tend to glaze over when I read production discussions, I'd rather be back in the day with an Akai and an Atari ST than Reason.
     
  12. moriaty

    moriaty Active Member

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    i know your not attacking specificly tech, but im using it as an example, since is the sub genre which has seen the most new comer producer than any other.

    i feel what you saying, about trying to explain to non dnb heads that dnb goes a bit deeper than wanabe gangsters. no one listens unfortunately.

    fek, i really want to write more on this matter, but i really need to revise for tomorows aural transcription exam...

    to be continued mate...!!!:twitch:

    :teeth::slick:
     
  13. bloodfire

    bloodfire Member

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    hi there just signed up to this forum wow what a great thread was reading all of your opinons lots of valid points i think. theres to much snobbery in dnb at the moment im always hearing people slating pendulum so what if they crossed over a bit. its ppl like them that keep the scene going. weather you like the fact that their commercial or not they reach ppl that might not be into the scene. before you know it there at slamin vinyl .2 months later there trying to mix down a tune on there pc.its all good .this is were the new talent is .virgins in a basement trying something new for us to enjoy . dont get me wrong we all like to slate clipz and gen dub wobblers but they have there place in the scene to .to be honest as long as limewax continues to twist my head with disgusting tunes then fuck it. god his tunes r like smallpox (SICK) ok you can tell the nooob to get lost now
     
  14. apples

    apples WINNER is back ;)

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    nope i am totally with you on what i read :D
     
  15. deadaelus

    deadaelus Laughter in the Slaughter

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    We dont hate on here. Your welcome to post, just keep in mind, we dont hate on here.
     
  16. Dustek

    Dustek Finished the PhD

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    Do it on Wikipedia :)
     
  17. bloodfire

    bloodfire Member

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    cool iv posted in to many clicky forums were long term member act like its there own personal web space and there opinon is the only one that counts and all outsiders must be burnt a live. so cheers for the nice welcome;)
     
  18. apples

    apples WINNER is back ;)

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    except if yuo like clownstep/tech step etc :teeth:
     
  19. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    just had an image of a tech-clown running out of my basement.

    shit, ey.
     
  20. deadaelus

    deadaelus Laughter in the Slaughter

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    And if i dont like you i do the mature thing, IGNORE USER. ATM there is only one user on Ignore, diz N E 1 heer me on Dat 1?