Starting with Hardware

dafo93 said:
I'm trying to stay away from too much hardware - I go by the phrase "less is more", because there's always the chance that the technicalities can dilute creativity IMO.
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This is only partially true. If you buy some new piece of kit, it will naturally slow down your work methods because you don't quite know your way around it yet. But as time passes and you become more familiar with the piece and it's features, it'll integrate itself into your work quite well. Naturally it also depends on the gear itself, a rack synth without any controls is quite a lot harder to operate than a desktop module with 100 knobs.
 
kama said:
E-MU's are not sample accurate on midi sync, so resampling is quite frankly the better choice, especially if talking beats, where a few milliseconds could mean a world of difference.
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http://stretta.blogspot.com/2007/07/daw-midi-timing-redux_25.html

I found that article interesting.


Honestly, this is the first that I've heard of anything not being able to be Midi synced and have proper results. All of my Korg gear has zero problems when Midi is ran through it from my comp.

I don't understand though... what is the point of using an instrument (be it a synth or a sampler) with a sequencer if its audio can't be output (via Midi) at a perfect BPM??? At 130 BPM, anything past 4 measures is going to start coming out of time and by the 16th measure, it's going to be very apparent.

Anyone with enough time and patience can Warp Marker said 'out of time' audio, but why would anyone do that when Midi is made for that purpose so that audio is recorded in time from the get go..?...


If there are Synths/Samplers that can't respond to Midi properly, then that sounds like a serious issue to me.
 
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sato said:
stuff 2
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Speaking from my own experience, I've never purchased something I knew I wouldn't want down the road. Ultimately, writing music and being productive is fun and doesn't require a DAW to make that a reality.

I agree, the few synths I've seen under $400 that sound fantastic are the Korg Electribes... and they're actually well under $300. They can do Techno, they can do Nuskool, they can do Trance, they can do all forms of Breakbeat, and they can do Hip Hop. They can be used for Live Performance or they can be used for work in the Studio.

The EA MKII is a versatile synth for $200ish and it's filters sound amazing for the price. It is a Master of Leads, and it does a variety of Bass sounds very well. It can also do an assortment of Bleepy FX type sounds. Do me a favor and name me an Analog synth that does what the EA MKII does for $200ish... that'll be the day.

Your suggestion of Modular synths to the OP who is a complete noob in regard to owning Hardware is interesting for a couple reasons. For one, you don't even own a Modular synth, yet you talk about using such Niche hardware as if it's cheap, easy, and effective. Two, you feel you would have started with a Modular synth, that's nice: I'm sure everyone wants a second chance to do things over in life... we can all dream.

http://www.modularsynth.com/

http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm

Yeah, the OP can look at those pages and have a blast racking his brain trying to figure out what he needs... and in the end being frustrated.

Building a Modular Synth is for experienced Synthesists and die hard 'explorers'. The OP is new to making music so recommending such an adventure is fool hardy imho. I can respect that you wish you'd started here first, but I disagree and think this side of music is very Niche and overly complex for the newly initiated.

I as well want to build my own Modular synth someday, and have wanted to for years. The reason I haven't is because it's 'incredibly' expensive to build something that has the same amount of features as most $200 Softsynths do.


In the end, nothing sounds as fat, rich, and full as Analog; but digital emulation in both Hardware and Softsynths is good enough for 80% of the world... especially noobs.
 
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Protoplasym said:
In the end, nothing sounds as fat, rich, and full as Analog; but digital emulation in both Hardware and Softsynths is good enough for 80% of the world... especially noobs.
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exactly

which is why in my original post I said 'don't spend money on cheap hardware, your DAW can do it all better'

you are quite right, you can't buy and analogue synth that will do as much as an EA-1 for anything close to the price - but you can get a bit of software that will be much better than an EA-1 for $200 and ultimately more useful for making dnb so while the hardware will be nice to play with for a while you will find yourself using it less and less and doing more and more in the DAW.

My point about the modular is that you can start with a low budget and buy something (even if it is just one filter) that you know for a fact you will still be using in years to come no matter how much money you spend on high-end gear in the future.
 
tbh mate - what do any of us know

just comes down to preference really

I used to love having a studio full of bits and bobs to play with. Mate of mine still does. He doesn't write any tunes but then that isn't what he is about - he just likes tinkering with things and listening to the noises they make. I used to be the same, guess I'm just jaded now haha!
 
easy to get jaded really, if a piece doesnt quickly fit in the studio (or the sound), chances are itll be gathering dust in the corner before you know it.
im really over synths but i do have an offer for a virus b for 320 eur which pops up in my mind every now and again
 
sato said:
exactly

which is why in my original post I said 'don't spend money on cheap hardware, your DAW can do it all better'

you are quite right, you can't buy and analogue synth that will do as much as an EA-1 for anything close to the price - but you can get a bit of software that will be much better than an EA-1 for $200 and ultimately more useful for making dnb so while the hardware will be nice to play with for a while you will find yourself using it less and less and doing more and more in the DAW.

My point about the modular is that you can start with a low budget and buy something (even if it is just one filter) that you know for a fact you will still be using in years to come no matter how much money you spend on high-end gear in the future.
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The same can be said in that one can't find a Softsynth for any amount of money that's going to sound like the EA or ER sounds... just like there's no softsynth that's going to sound like analog. Yeah, you can find Softsynths for $200 that have loads of features that can't be found on an EA or ER, but their filters will never have the same character.

Why is any Softsynth going to be "more usefull for dnb" than an EA or ER? Any Synth is capable of making any genre of Dance Music.... be it hardware or software. That's like saying the color blue is only good for water and green is only good for grass.

It's your opinion that the OP will use the hardware less and less and the DAW more and more. Guess what, I haven't used my hardware much at all in the last couple years... so you've got a point, but everyone is different. But more importantly, the OP 'wants' to play with some hardware.

You and I have both gone through our 'hardware is fun' phase: why would you attempt to keep the OP from experiencing the same so he can come to his own conclusions on what's more fun to use when making noises or composing music?


I don't understand this point at all... you don't know for a fact that you'll still be using anything for years to come.

I think you contradict yourself: originally you told the OP to steer clear of cheap hardware because he'd grow tired of it, yet you're advising him to go Modular since he has a cheap budget. (again, Modular is not cheap, I don't know why you think it is, unless you're made of money) Which is it.. should the OP not spend $200 on a simple, easy to use fun toy like the EA or ER or should he spend thousands to build something that has the same capability as a $200 EA or ER?


Kama's right, the OP should buy something simple, cheap, and used... and just have fun... and if he grows tired of it, he can sell it and move on to bigger things in the future.
 
sato said:
tbh mate - what do any of us know

just comes down to preference really

I used to love having a studio full of bits and bobs to play with. Mate of mine still does. He doesn't write any tunes but then that isn't what he is about - he just likes tinkering with things and listening to the noises they make. I used to be the same, guess I'm just jaded now haha!
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We know what we like : )

definitely - agreed

I'm sure he has loads of fun doing that too... I wish I could do that. I feel compelled to compose, but I can respect those that simply let the noises fly and don't worry about sequencing and mixing elements down into a cohesive piece.
 
logikz said:
easy to get jaded really, if a piece doesnt quickly fit in the studio (or the sound), chances are itll be gathering dust in the corner before you know it.
im really over synths but i do have an offer for a virus b for 320 eur which pops up in my mind every now and again
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Must be hard making music without Synths and Midi....
:D (just messin with ya : )

I checked out your page on the Reactor Studio site. Most of your work has solid structure and feel so respect for that. Most of them aren't my cup of tea, but I can see where they'd fit in a lot of sets.

I think "Spectre" is very interesting (the edits on the drumloop are varied), very techy and intelligent.

"Ironneck" is badass! Really spaced out and dark... I wish the Production was bigger though... maybe it's because you've only got a low quality mp3 uploaded? The track sounds so quiet, but the mix is nice and level. Really cool tune though.


Anyhoot... if you need any help in using Midi, pm me.
:clown:
 
Protoplasym said:
http://stretta.blogspot.com/2007/07/daw-midi-timing-redux_25.html

I found that article interesting.


Honestly, this is the first that I've heard of anything not being able to be Midi synced and have proper results. All of my Korg gear has zero problems when Midi is ran through it from my comp.

I don't understand though... what is the point of using an instrument (be it a synth or a sampler) with a sequencer if its audio can't be output (via Midi) at a perfect BPM??? At 130 BPM, anything past 4 measures is going to start coming out of time and by the 16th measure, it's going to be very apparent.

Anyone with enough time and patience can Warp Marker said 'out of time' audio, but why would anyone do that when Midi is made for that purpose so that audio is recorded in time from the get go..?...


If there are Synths/Samplers that can't respond to Midi properly, then that sounds like a serious issue to me.
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it's pretty easy to prove - if i copy a sound in the sampler for, say, break freq splitting, it will flange because the sounds don't start at the same time. the difference is very small but the flanging proves it. Of course this could well be that i don't know what I'm doing since i'm very new to the sampler, but a visit to emusonacid.co.uk said the same.
 
Protoplasym said:
I'm curious, what kind of Sound Card do you have and what is your Noise Floor at? In case you've never checked/know how to do it... simply open up your Host, arm a channel to record your Sound Cards inputs (don't have anything input to them), and record a second of 'nothing'. Then go look at it in your Wav Editor of choice... what DB is the noise at in the recording? That's your noise floor.
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I just went and tested this. It showed an amazingly high value of -57 dB. I guess it's the mixer, it's an old yamaha from the 80's and I think it was shite even back then. But since I only bounce basses or beats through the sampler, you can't really tell the noise is there. Maybe that's part of the "warmth" i'm getting...

The sound card is an E-MU 1212m, internal. I wouldn't know shit about converters but allegedly the AD in this thing ranks pretty high in it's price class.
 
kama said:
it's pretty easy to prove - if i copy a sound in the sampler for, say, break freq splitting, it will flange because the sounds don't start at the same time. the difference is very small but the flanging proves it. Of course this could well be that i don't know what I'm doing since i'm very new to the sampler, but a visit to emusonacid.co.uk said the same.
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I'm not following your example. :confused:

If you turn your Sampler on, and it has a drum loop loaded, then you midi your Sampler to your Host and make the Host the Master Clock, record the drum loop to your Host...

Are you saying that recorded drum loop doesn't line up with the Metronome in your Host perfectly?
 
kama said:
I just went and tested this. It showed an amazingly high value of -57 dB. I guess it's the mixer, it's an old yamaha from the 80's and I think it was shite even back then. But since I only bounce basses or beats through the sampler, you can't really tell the noise is there. Maybe that's part of the "warmth" i'm getting...

The sound card is an E-MU 1212m, internal. I wouldn't know shit about converters but allegedly the AD in this thing ranks pretty high in it's price class.
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Howdy... wow, that's really high. My Delta 44 (which is ancient by todays standards) is at -75 DB and that's pretty damn high.

Oh wait... you're talking about the Noise Floor of your Sound Card + this Yamaha Mixer... ahhh... no wonder.

No no no... I was asking you to do a Noise Floor test of your Sound Card alone. Yeah, that mixer is adding a bunch of noise for sure. Do a test of just your Sound Card to see what your Noise Floor is at.

Turn on Host, arm a track (make sure your mixer isn't plugged in to your Sound Cards' INs), and record...

I think the standard back in '04 when I looked this up... on quality $2-500 cards was around -100 to -140. I wonder what todays cards are doing. :D

I have SO much work to record from my Tritons and other Hardware that I'm waiting until I get a newer build with a newer Sound Card in order to minimize the noise in those recordings.

I also need this:

http://izotope.com/products/audio/rx/

It's :expensive: though :twisted:
 
haha no mate, its just that i only record some sounds through the mixer. There the hiss is audible. When the mixer isn't on, there is no noise what so ever. If I don't perceive something, i wont let it bother me. just like the presence of anything supernatural. why bother when all you're gonna get is a sore head.
 
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