Drum & Bass What frequency ceiling do you have for your bass? What floor?

Discussion in 'Production' started by kdk, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. kdk

    kdk Member

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    I try to get my bass to sit within 100 (or 200) Hz and 2,000 Hz (maybe 2,400 Hz, if I'm feeling it). I use EQ to "enforce" this restriction, stopping the bass from clashing with the leads. The sub (< 100 Hz) is for the kick, and 2,000-18,000 Hz is for the leads. Sometimes, I split the bass into 100-600 Hz, and 600-2000 Hz, either doubled up playing the same notes, or as separate parts.

    I've found this wide range makes for basses that are both deep, and also clear/audible (especially on lower-end systems). I don't pretend to know the "right" answer, though.

    Does anyone else share this approach? Does anyone target bass frequencies differently? If so, how come?
     
  2. BulletDodger

    BulletDodger junglejunglejunglejungle

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    6th floor..no lift.
     
  3. Binary_UK

    Binary_UK Binary.

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    I tend to follow this rule:

    Sub, Mono, 20-200hz
    Lows 100-500hz
    Mids & Tops anywhere above.
     
  4. alz

    alz compress to impress

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    I don't have a rule, I just tend to use my ears, and hear where the harmonics are and try to cut accordingly, but yeh, sub is usually around 100 or so.
     
  5. Raptor's Den

    Raptor's Den Member

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    In the end its art so you can do whatever you want to do, as long as you dont destroy the sound system... Anyways, for me the thud of your kick that pounds you in your heart should be at around 75-100 hz with another boost at like about 150 hz. My bass is ALWAYS at or below 20-50hz... in the end the rumble of your bass should fill the sound system and room and what not and sustain the rumble it has, otherwise you may push your bass to far and high up the frequencies and damage and/or destroy the soundstystem.

    Hope this helps bro, I highly suggest staying in 50 hz, maybe 60-65 if any higher but to each their own, true and proper sub bass should be a fat, DEEP, rumble!
     
  6. Sovereign

    Sovereign Member

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    My sub-bass (sine-wave usually) line usually hits as low as 38hz (sometimes as low as 30) and no higher than ~80hz. It's not really sub-bass above 60 but it's helpful to go a bit above for melodic purposes.

    Bass-line gets low-cut at 80 or 100hz, maybe 120hz sometimes, depends on what's going on with the kick most of the time and I try to stop it from going 1khz max.

    Kick never goes below 80hz, that's for the sine-wave; honestly having the only sub-bass in a track be the kick is boring to me. Which is one of the reasons why I hate House music, I love sub-bass so much, it's one of my favorite elements and restricting it to only the kick is horrid to me. I love my bass-weight son, it's all about those low low notes hitting you in the chest!
     
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  7. d-low

    d-low I know you got soul

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    some info in this thread doesn't make much sense at all
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  8. spyre

    spyre sample all the things

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    I generally have my basses around 11000hz
     
  9. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

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    It all completely depends on the hierarchy of my instrument. Most of my basses are mixed without high cuts, but most of my leads and pads are low cut, because most of my music has the bass as the most upfront instrument. Sub never above 95, but i tend to keep them above 45 because there are a lot of systems (including my own) that cant go that low. I only low cut basses when i'm putting a sub underneath, usually not steep, because low cutting your basses when you dont need to can kill their weight.
     
  10. Raptor's Den

    Raptor's Den Member

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    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA i was like wait wot?!?! for a sec... xD
     
  11. LikesItHardware

    LikesItHardware Member

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    I have no idea of exact frequencies (I mix with hardware and the bass is hardware), but I tend to roll the bass off at 30hz in the finished track.
     
  12. Raptor's Den

    Raptor's Den Member

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    Ok this is for those confused on the whole subject!

    You can only go so low and so much to where you either go exactly on, or past the apex of your sound from being a bass to becoming a kick for example! Wow, wtf did this man just write you ask? haha lemme explain kindly! Look, There are always regions to where specific sounds should hit because frequency is just a vibration that gets denser and denser, playing faster and faster as it goes higher up! There are regions in which you need to watch for! Example below!


    In a regular drum and bass tune with a thick, deep kick, thick deep bass, here would be my equation of frequency I am dealing with... These are the bass regions I use. With the apex being at 50 hz where you would about cut off your bass. I only say about because a sidechain compressor usually takes care of pressure put in by the kick and bass playing at the same time. So those regions of kick and bass do not collide any if at all!

    Before I start, some tips on sidechaining. If you want a smooth sidechain and dont want the pumping its simple. Separate your bassline into two layers, one for just its sub, and one for mids. Then sidechain the bass and it is virtually seamless because you are only cutting out your sub bass from playing when your kick plays and your mid ends all blend together nice and swell!

    Sub Bass = 0-50hz Always! Never higher, Never lower. But with 20 hz Cut off cause you really dont need lower then 20hz,
    it just adds unneeded pressure to your mixdown! Most eqs have the below 20 region automatically cut off. But if not cut it off and shape it accordingly! 1 hertz of pressure is almost equivalent to you wobbling our hands in the air lol.. adds not that much goodness. And reason why I would NEVER go higher then 50hz is because at 50 is the apex of where that is the maximum of full sub pressure that rumbles the entire room and floor.. makes your nose tingle.. pinches your heart.. hahaha thuds your hard +much more! Play with it!

    Kick = 50-200hz And these numbers are all approximations you gotta make em fit snug too, and it is all pressure so you have to balance the pressure to a certain point as maximum as you can then the master will take care of it in the end.

    Snare = 150-450hz


    Just some tips from me! You gotta remember that when your sub bass hits you should feel it at maximum volume very powerfully filling in the area. If you are doing it higher then around the 50 region your room acoustics may not be the best, hey we dont all have million dollar studios nor even really need em hahaha. But still you get my point! You can do whatever you all want! hell you can start a track from exactly 0hz and start your way up and make the gnarliest frequency modulated track step by step frequency through frequency...
    lolol

    One love all! Hope that helped a bit! Just some insight from my own personal perspectvive
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
  13. d-low

    d-low I know you got soul

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    Theres no real reason sub bass shouldn't come above 50hz, thats essentially a low G and you are really limiting your creativity in not writing above that G.

    You seem to be hinting that there is some acoustic problem with using bass notes higher than 50hz?? hmm. i would be very interested to read some articles or papers that explain this problem further if you could post a link.

    Thanks
     
  14. cele

    cele Well-Known Member

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    I think hes just saying that the sub above 50hz is too high to really feel and make the place shake, dunno how to put it into english language but i think you get the point.

    as for me i don't really follow the rules but general guidelines are something like this

    sub: 30-80
    kick:80-100/120 (peak ofc)
    snare: 180-300
    basses/pads: 100-20000 (I don't low cut basses for frequency purposes but for sound, I usually just go with what sounds better, mixdown comes second)
    Synths/leads: 400-20000

    but lets not create an invisible wall just for mixdown purposes that can hinder the creative process
     
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  15. Raptor's Den

    Raptor's Den Member

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    Really my perspective I am going from is from my scientific observations of the frequency field!

    Actually not at all! I mean yeah if you have a bass at like 100 to 150hz then yeah then that may be a problem haha.

    Thats just my personal preference. Personally for me the reason why I stay ONLY within the 50hz bass range is to get my bass absolutely RUMBLING your body, a huge vibration basically.

    The problem is, is that as you get higher the frequency is getting denser and denser, aka playing faster and faster which basically the energy that is producing from it CAN be toooo tight. Which really takes the whole point of a sub bass out and turns it into just a really too heavy bass. That COULD destroy sound systems.

    You can go up to about 60-65 cause 65 hz is about the apex to where it finishes off being a sub bass, and then its on to the kick region. Truly I can get a REALLY heavy bass that fills your entire room just by ONLY staying in 50hz..

    Now let me tell you I dont do a brickwall high pass and get it EXACT to 50 hz, I just cut off the high end and put it as close as I can, so I can then blend my bass in with my kicks and snares well. It is all in my head the experience that I have learned so that is the best I could write up the problems of going higher!

    This picture is justd an example of the bass regions I use. Also why I stick only within the 50 and under region is because at about 50-65 is where the apex to where it stops being sub bass and it is much higher then where it really needs to be. It all requires balance, without balance there is no full dynamics truly! There will be some dynamics but not much if at all! :p
    [​IMG]


    It's all about the dynamics of frequency! It works a certain way, and according to proffesional sound systems you really need to bring it out in a specific waym, to not cause ear damage, destroy the sound system, etc! Hope this helps!
    The whole dynamic point of a bass is to shake the place, and how its shaking it, is that the bass rumble is soo p0owerful in the 50hz region that it just absolutely shakes you. Especially if you limited that bass to maximize it and eq it! There is a WHOLE LOT to do in music, you just gotta find the right way that works for you brother!

    You really want the people to FEEEL that rumble all the way into the top of their skulls.. hahahaha! You can overdo it! Sometimes it has to do with hearing the bass rather then feeling it, cause at 100hz once you feel that bass, youre FEELING maybe too much of that bass! Only because you went by hearing the bass rather then feeling it! And practice as well! Also not saying that is the reason why you make basses at 100hz, is by hearing the bass.. Just another example though! Best of luck to you bro, hoope this helps!

    100hz to me personally is just WAYY TOO MUCH. Unless yeah like you said you have a kick that goes from 20-80 hz or soemthing then you have a nice bass at like 60-80 that could work! its been done! It isnt safe at all for any sound system! Frequency and sound systems are delicate. Frequency is delicate because you have to bring it out the proper way, otherwise you can and may damage ears, destroy systems, etc. Sound systems are delicate because like I said for frequency, it has to sit at the proper level for the speaker to play 100% properly! One love all <3
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2013
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  16. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

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    It seems to me that there's a whole bunch of people in this thread trying to make out like they know what they're chatting about, but getting most of it horribly wrong......
     
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  17. kdk

    kdk Member

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    I thought I at least sort of knew what I was talking about when I started the thread. Now, I'm not so sure... :p
     
  18. Raptor's Den

    Raptor's Den Member

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    Ok to clear up your confusion, You shouldnt go higher then around 75hz for bass. EVER. The problem lies in that you just put your bass past the apex of what bass can truly be in its home or region of frequency, and at that point, and only unless you know what you are doing in terms to a sound system you can definitely use 100hz for a tiny bit of motion, but never anything full fledged bass. 100hz is Much too far for sub. Not even my opinion its just too far! Stay within 20-75 hz and you will be good. There are basses made in that region. I love to stick with only the 20-50 range.. really has that nice center of true sub bass. That should be for your low low lowest midrange to hit around from 145-150+. The last sentence is just an example however of how you would split your bassline into midrange and sub. In some cases you would want to cut off the entire bass range of sounds in which you are only hearing the midrange only. Or you could cut off at around 145-150 like I said and the low low midrange will actually contribute lots of its flavour in terms of what it can offer around those frequencies around 145-150. 100 really should be and is for kicks, although it can be done here you have a kick from 20-100hz solely as your bass and kick! One example. You can do anything you want however! Just play with it and practice and learn the true dynamics of frequency. its not a complex math equation, just play frequency start from a low 1hz, and slowly go up and listen to and observe to what the frequency does! It always helps to have a bigger angle on what you are doing bro! <3 hope that helps too!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2013
  19. BulletDodger

    BulletDodger junglejunglejunglejungle

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    Amazing.
     
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  20. Mason John

    Mason John 21st Junta

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    Indeedly-doodly.