Waveform Shift Question??

Discussion in 'Production' started by djwc101, Sep 29, 2011.

  1. djwc101

    djwc101 New Member

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    Waveform Shift Phenomenon??

    I've noticed in many tunes by the likes of Noisia, Phace, and etc at certain points in the track the waveform will move off center. At first glance it appears to be pan or stereo modulation, but after experimenting that doesnt seem to be the case.

    Kinda hard to explain so here's an example
    ["Misanthrop - Factory 9" intro]
    [​IMG]
    AUDIO CLIP:
    http://dnbshare.com/download/Misanthrop_-_Factory_5_INTRO_CLIP_.mp3.html

    If anyone could tell me whats going on here and if this has any real effect on the audio, it would be greatly appreciated!
    -thanks
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  2. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

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    wtf is going on there?
     
  3. subprime

    subprime Dysjoint

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    Every now and then if I'm resampling a rendered clip will look like this and I pretty much say what Miszt just said.

    Looks strange as hell for sure.
     
  4. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

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    whats the time span for that pic?
     
  5. T:M

    T:M Dusty Techno Workout

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    That looks crazy weird...

    Did you sit on it?
     
  6. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    Sometimes plugins that simulate analog signals can do that. Stuff like "tape distortion" or something. I'm not sure exactly what it is though. DOA had an extensive thread on the subject with the pro's trying to explain it. Hard to find without knowing what it's called.
     
  7. djwc101

    djwc101 New Member

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    about 24 sec


    Hmm makes since for the most part, by why would analog/ distorted signals do that :-/

    It would be a huuge help if you could find that DOA thread!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2011
  8. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

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    what does it sound like? can u put a clip up?
     
  9. djwc101

    djwc101 New Member

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    here's another example, not as good as the one before but ya get the point..

    [2nd half of drop on "Scary Monsters & Sprites (Noisia Remix)"]
    [​IMG]

    ---------- Post added at 17:36 ---------- Previous post was at 17:22 ----------

    Just added it to the original post^^
     
  10. tv_g

    tv_g Active Member

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    it's a number of really low frequencies (less than 1hz). since it is way, way below the audible range, it is eating headroom and should be filtered out. you can see in both these cases that one side is getting heavily compressed/limited and the other side is not.

    in soundforge, use the fm synth to generate the lowest possible simple sine wav and mix one cycle (or part of one cycle) into your tracks and the wave form will now look similar to that.

    the only use i've had for this (as it usually occurs as a side effect of reverb or convolution) is in changing how a compressor or wave shaper works (amplitude based plugins) and then filter it out after.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  11. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

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    thanks for the info tv_g, aware of low-freq problems like this (didnt know it fuked the waveform like that tho!), just seems a bit unlikley for it to be found in a released Noisia track?
     
  12. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

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    sounds like sum fukin mental phaser fx, sick sound

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2015
  13. djwc101

    djwc101 New Member

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    BINGO!! After putting a high pass at 20hz on both of these tunes it fixed the waveform right up. Also tried adding it to a couple of my own tunes and got some crazy lookin results.

    Still raises the question though.. Why would audio extraordinaire's like Noisia let something like that slip thru in the mix?? Either it's for some weird subconscious effect OR they just like fukkin with the waveform for fun lol.. both very likely

    Bigg ups to tv_g for your reply! :)
     
  14. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    Hmmmmmm. Could it be from the mp3 conversion? Are these wav's or what? Also, ripping from vinyl could introduce something like that I imagine.
     
  15. Lucider

    Lucider Member

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    If any wants to look it up it's called DC Offset and it's undesirable. Imagine the speaker being limited to that small range of motion instead of crossing the origin (its resting place).

    I've had this problem recording analog->computer in general (most likely caused by some bad power, wall warts, old equipment, computers, lights...etc...) from vinyl and from synthesizers. Actually, if someone can tell me why the "remove DC offset" function in Cubase doesn't work that would be really helpful. I don't want to have to run it through pure data with a HPF @ 5Hz. What other programs have a good HPF to remove the DC offset? Set it as low as possible cause it will "change" the rest of the waveform according to experts.
     
  16. tv_g

    tv_g Active Member

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    yep, most high pass filters cause small time shifts in frequencies above the cut. so especially in the bass you'll see interference compounding or cancelling certain frequencies as the phase changes.

    i've never had to remove low frequencies from anything other than samples where i do not care much about this. on a whole mix, i would be very hesitant, but 5hz shouldn't be too bad. this does lead me to think there should be some dc offset specific plugs but i do know any.
     
  17. RedRavenRuler

    RedRavenRuler boom baby

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    Wow I learn something new everyday... I never knew what the "Remove DC Offset" light in FL's sampler did and now I do! This is pretty odd stuff though!
     
  18. djwc101

    djwc101 New Member

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    So since there's not much to do around my neck of the woods today, got bored and started messing around with different DC Offset combinations...
    and uhhh all I have to say is...

    [​IMG]
    ..guess I got a lil carried away :lol:
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2011
  19. tv_g

    tv_g Active Member

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  20. Lucider

    Lucider Member

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    huh, try doing that above audio rate like 80Hz or so and see what it sounds like

    ---------- Post added at 15:30 ---------- Previous post was at 15:27 ----------

    Oh, and tv_g, as it seems you may know, I'm wondering if I should avoid making these drastic low cuts and subtractive cuts in the equalizer - both on the master and individual tracks. AFAIK what you're implying is that my lo-cut around 35Hz could be messing things up a bit?

    I guess the question is whether digital equalizers make some effort to maintain good phase no matter how they're used.

    Sorry that's off topic.