Vinyl vs. digital

[dnbk0d3fr33k]

why would you use a vinyl as opposed to a cd turntable

 

[deadaelus]

well that is a really giant question...cause arguements toward both sides have their merrits.

I can tell you that i prefer vinyl.

I like the look of vinyl, the smell of vinyl, and of course the rich sound of vinyl. I believe that mixing vinyl is a much more challenging but rewarding feat for both DJ's and clubfolk alike. You hear everything with vinyl, its raw. If the mix slides a little outta control, people can notice cause the pitch of the tune wobbles. (Some CD mixers have a pitch waiver control, so that the digital encoder inside the CD player smooths out the wobbles so you dont hear them.) The important thing about hearing these wobbles is hearing the DJ respond and edit and correct the sounds you are hearing, no DJ is perfect.

Another big reason i like vinyl is that it is visual. People can see you switch tracks, stop the record, and preform precision cuts & scratches. People are drawn to what the DJ is doing, and playing vinyl allows others to see what is going on. I know turntablism is not everybodies style of music, but i believe that most people appreciate turntablism for the art, precision and difficulty of the skills preformed. Scratching can be applied to all styles of music and is really the pinacle of DJing. Have you ever seen someone Beat Juggle 2 records? Lets see someone do that on a CD mixer, i gaurantee it is not as impressive.

The last and most important reason i like vinyl, is cause the artists retain a bigger profit on the sale of their music. The was an article on the forum a while back discussing how much producers get paid on a per record basis, and some artists get paid as much as a Pound per record sold. How much does that producer get paid when you yank his tracks of soulseek (in my opinion it is these people who are destroying the scene. If your gonna play CDs pay for your downloads)

 

[Dj SmurFiE]

well that is a really giant question...cause arguements toward both sides have their merrits.

I can tell you that i prefer vinyl.

I like the look of vinyl, the smell of vinyl, and of course the rich sound of vinyl. I believe that mixing vinyl is a much more challenging but rewarding feat for both DJ's and clubfolk alike. You hear everything with vinyl, its raw. If the mix slides a little outta control, people can notice cause the pitch of the tune wobbles. (Some CD mixers have a pitch waiver control, so that the digital encoder inside the CD player smooths out the wobbles so you dont hear them.) The important thing about hearing these wobbles is hearing the DJ respond and edit and correct the sounds you are hearing, no DJ is perfect.

Another big reason i like vinyl is that it is visual. People can see you switch tracks, stop the record, and preform precision cuts & scratches. People are drawn to what the DJ is doing, and playing vinyl allows others to see what is going on. I know turntablism is not everybodies style of music, but i believe that most people appreciate turntablism for the art, precision and difficulty of the skills preformed. Scratching can be applied to all styles of music and is really the pinacle of DJing. Have you ever seen someone Beat Juggle 2 records? Lets see someone do that on a CD mixer, i gaurantee it is not as impressive.

The last and most important reason i like vinyl, is cause the artists retain a bigger profit on the sale of their music. The was an article on the forum a while back discussing how much producers get paid on a per record basis, and some artists get paid as much as a Pound per record sold. How much does that producer get paid when you yank his tracks of soulseek (in my opinion it is these people who are destroying the scene. If your gonna play CDs pay for your downloads)

'amen' to that!

ill get my coat.....................


do agree with ya 100% though.

 

[xen]

Can I get a :note: on that - why I appreciate (and prefer) vinyl over digital, regardless of all the many rambling discussions about quality, perceived and actual, is that vinyl DJing is a much more visual thing - it engages the audience whereas CDJing... You pop the CD in, you wait for it to load (and occasionally it won't, what happens then? you're fucked, no chance of a quick mix ), and then if you have your cuepoints set up, you jump to em and hit play... Bingo.

Just not as visually involving, which is half of what DJing is all about. If DJing was just about mixing tunes together anonymously for someone, the DJ booth would be tucked away in the corner of the room - it's the focal point for a dance, everyone looks towards it, so go figure that if what the DJ's doing isn't interesting to watch, how do you expect the crowd to get involved and get fired up?


edit: post number 404! :geek:

 

[mekim]

Can I get a :note: on that - why I appreciate (and prefer) vinyl over digital, regardless of all the many rambling discussions about quality, perceived and actual, is that vinyl DJing is a much more visual thing - it engages the audience whereas CDJing... You pop the CD in, you wait for it to load (and occasionally it won't, what happens then? you're fucked, no chance of a quick mix ), and then if you have your cuepoints set up, you jump to em and hit play... Bingo.

and then you pitch-chase the tune until it's running smoothly with the tune that's playing currently and mix it in. it's the exact same visually as pitch chasing a record except you don't see the record rotating. i don't understand how people can go on the visual thing as an argument of vinyl over digital.

 

[xen]

Well that's it - you've hit the nail on the head, at least in the respect of the visual difference. You look at a DJ working, you can see the records turning, you can see everything they do with their hands, their body, it's really quite organic to watch if you have a DJ who's confident in what he does. I've noticed that with a lot of DJs who use CDJs at gigs, they tend to stand more in one place, or move around less - it becomes like studio mixing. You can't do this at a live event, cause part of the DJ's job aside from just laying down the beats is to get the crowd going (watch andy c when he's on form for classic examples of this, he really interacts with the crowd and they appreciate that - and reciprocate by taking the energy levels up).

With a CDJ, you as a dj might be able to to see the icon rotating or the pseudo-platter rotating if you have the Technics cdj... But to the audience, for all intents and purpose you're just hitting start and then tapping a few buttons, flicking a little rotating wheel around every so often. CDJs, imo, are generally regarded as having greatly reduced the 'visual flair' element of a DJ's set - there's something incredibly tactile, even if you're just in the audience, with watching a DJ put together a mix, dropping the needle, working teh decks and the equipment - whereas with CDJ, even if the DJ is working just as hard, it still feels a bit like a cop out.

It's really hard to put my finger on exactly how to describe the difference, but I for one always feel a bit shortchanged somehow if a DJ is only exclusively using CDJs - and I totally understand that mixing with CDJs can be just as challenging as with vinyl. (And this is discounting all the other arguments about why DJs, especially producers, should be using vinyl if they want to practice what they preach about selling copies to the punters in the shops, one standard for them and another for us etc etc)... You know what I mean?

There's just 'something about vinyl' which CDs can't live up to. CDs are just so nondescript to me, whereas a vinyl, you pick it up, it's big in your hands, you can literally see the music on it, its a contact back to the music's earliest beginnings, and its influences and inspirations in turn right back to the reggae, soul, acid house movements... I think it may also be the link to the past which some people aren't quite ready to mourn the passing of yet, including myself. long live 12"s!

 

[mesh]

I dont think you should have to explain why you find watching a DJ spin records more interesting than one spinning CDs. It is what it is, and many people feel this way. And as DJ I know I enjoy mixing vinyl more, because I'm a tactile person.

I would qualify this by saying my two favourite Australian DJs spin huge amounts on CD, maybe half/half. I have a feeling if they lived in the UK they'd be cutting more to plate though.

 

[Dustek]

and then you pitch-chase the tune until it's running smoothly with the tune that's playing currently and mix it in. it's the exact same visually as pitch chasing a record except you don't see the record rotating. i don't understand how people can go on the visual thing as an argument of vinyl over digital.

I agree, especially since the time code gives you a lot more precise info on what is going to happen and when, rather than the vinyl grooves (which you often can't see unless you set lamps up).

As far as enjoying seeing a vinyl dj play more is concerned, its because audiences are used to vinyl.

In twenty years time they'll be wondering what those big black circles, that some weird djs use, are.

Cds give me a little bit more time to fiddle with the eqs and chain events than when I'm playing vinyl and definitely do not need require more skill (need less)... just need getting used to it. Personally I take end result over the skill needed to achieve it any day. If the floor is pumping and cheese is not being melted, rock on.

 

[moriaty]

mixing with vinyl is just more fun.

and no Dustek, in 20 years time, people will still know what those big black circle thingies are, coz there still gonna be nuts like me to buy them..

peace

 

[mekim]

Well that's it - you've hit the nail on the head, at least in the respect of the visual difference. You look at a DJ working, you can see the records turning, you can see everything they do with their hands, their body, it's really quite organic to watch if you have a DJ who's confident in what he does. I've noticed that with a lot of DJs who use CDJs at gigs, they tend to stand more in one place, or move around less - it becomes like studio mixing. You can't do this at a live event, cause part of the DJ's job aside from just laying down the beats is to get the crowd going (watch andy c when he's on form for classic examples of this, he really interacts with the crowd and they appreciate that - and reciprocate by taking the energy levels up).

With a CDJ, you as a dj might be able to to see the icon rotating or the pseudo-platter rotating if you have the Technics cdj... But to the audience, for all intents and purpose you're just hitting start and then tapping a few buttons, flicking a little rotating wheel around every so often. CDJs, imo, are generally regarded as having greatly reduced the 'visual flair' element of a DJ's set - there's something incredibly tactile, even if you're just in the audience, with watching a DJ put together a mix, dropping the needle, working teh decks and the equipment - whereas with CDJ, even if the DJ is working just as hard, it still feels a bit like a cop out.

It's really hard to put my finger on exactly how to describe the difference, but I for one always feel a bit shortchanged somehow if a DJ is only exclusively using CDJs - and I totally understand that mixing with CDJs can be just as challenging as with vinyl. (And this is discounting all the other arguments about why DJs, especially producers, should be using vinyl if they want to practice what they preach about selling copies to the punters in the shops, one standard for them and another for us etc etc)... You know what I mean?

There's just 'something about vinyl' which CDs can't live up to. CDs are just so nondescript to me, whereas a vinyl, you pick it up, it's big in your hands, you can literally see the music on it, its a contact back to the music's earliest beginnings, and its influences and inspirations in turn right back to the reggae, soul, acid house movements... I think it may also be the link to the past which some people aren't quite ready to mourn the passing of yet, including myself. long live 12"s!

actually, the only reason why i've noticed a lot of dj's who play on cdj's to be a little less ... into it ... is they're mostly producers rather than dj's. when i've seen the pro dj's use cdj's they go just as crazy.

any dj who's touching the platter a lot on the cdj's is the same dj who would touch the platter a lot on a pair of technics, something i don't associate with being a very good dj. so in that case, the only real difference would be not visually being able to see the record and inserting a cd rather than dropping the needle.

i just find it funny that the format of music that a dj is using really matters to some people. i'd rather be able to hear someone play some fresh new tunes they just finished than watch a piece of plastic rotating.

 

[xen]

for me, D&B and vinyl is like fish and chips - they go together, and having one without the other is never quite the same. As one member of the Tory party said in the house of commons when TV cameras were introduced for the first time, "I'm all for progress as long as it doesn't mean change" - but seriously, it seems a bit hypocritical really when labels are pushing vinyl and decrying the fall in vinyl sales when label owners and producers who release on those labels can be seen week in, week out, DJing from CDJ (and in the case of some, but thankfully a minority, exclusively using CDJs).

I can appreciate that it's hard to lug round several hundred records if you're going abroad, but at least take 40 or so, those fit in hand luggage, and a wallet of CDs will do nicely, but people like John B (and Tech Itch (!) from a set I saw a little while back) spring to mind immediately, as they use(d) exclusively CDs to mix... Now mister tech itch, you'd like me to go buy your £5 a pop vinyls when they come out in the shop, which I'll happily do... But oh wait, so you're doing this set using only CD? Why should I bother buying your vinyls if you can't be bothered to promote the very format you're releasing your tunes on?

 

[mesh]

actually, the only reason why i've noticed a lot of dj's who play on cdj's to be a little less ... into it ... is they're mostly producers rather than dj's. when i've seen the pro dj's use cdj's they go just as crazy.

any dj who's touching the platter a lot on the cdj's is the same dj who would touch the platter a lot on a pair of technics, something i don't associate with being a very good dj. so in that case, the only real difference would be not visually being able to see the record and inserting a cd rather than dropping the needle.

i just find it funny that the format of music that a dj is using really matters to some people. i'd rather be able to hear someone play some fresh new tunes they just finished than watch a piece of plastic rotating.

Its a visual thing, but not based around people going crazy and excitable behind the decks for me. I know what you mean about producers, but I dont rate most of them as DJs anyway and Im not realy talking about them.
I also think the ease with which people can play CDs is great, but quality control becomes an issue, and its hard to argue that increase cd playing isnt linked to increased piracy.

 

[ed fiasco]

Now mister tech itch, you'd like me to go buy your £5 a pop vinyls when they come out in the shop, which I'll happily do... But oh wait, so you're doing this set using only CD? Why should I bother buying your vinyls if you can't be bothered to promote the very format you're releasing your tunes on?

i reckon he would be just as happy if you went to tune tribe and bought his tunes there as an mp3 download (without disributers and records shops taking their cut he makes about the same). i also reckon he is quite pleased to save the £50 a pop it used to cost him to have dubs cut.

i love vinyl. but let's not let nostalgia cloud us. i go to see a dj to HEAR what they do, not to watch them find a cue point on a vinyl record (the only 'visual' difference i can think of). cdjs mean producers can make a tune/vip that afternoon and then go and play it out that night without spending much moolah at a dub cutting studio.

 

[mekim]

I also think the ease with which people can play CDs is great, but quality control becomes an issue, and its hard to argue that increase cd playing isnt linked to increased piracy.

it's pretty hard to (effectively) argue that it is linked to increased piracy as well.

 

[Fes Rock]

ehh...It just sux!!! all of us vinyl whores who own original presses, now can find the tune on Limewire or Aquisistion?


Raping the vinyl industry!!
You think ppl care what they own...vinyl or digi?

 

[xen]

To be honest, I don't think mp3s on the p2p are really affecting sales half as much as what struggling labels would like to have us think.

There is an enormous amount of SHITE out atm, moreso than in the past imo, and the labels would have us believe that it's just p2p sharing which is damaging sales? Hah, yeah, whatever.


I think that some countries wouldn't have half as much of a d&b industry and scene had it not been for the Internet helping to spread the sounds and the fresh tracks to the further parts of Europe, the East in particular (Russia, Estonia, Latvia, places like that).


The real problem, and the one which has been discussed over and over, time and time again, is the plethora of DJs who profit from playing out illegal stuff on CD which they've just downloaded off the web or p2p, it's almost setting a precedent for others to continue to do it, and it's absolutely disrespectful and quite arrogant - biting the hand that feeds them. They need to be sorted out sharpish.


Like any industry, the D&B industry will have its lean years, and its resurgence... Plus you have to factor in the ever-rising cost of living, inflation, all sorts of things. It's never as simple as some would have you believe.

 

[mesh]

it's pretty hard to (effectively) argue that it is linked to increased piracy as well.

Its absolutely linked to increased piracy. Digitised music can be infinitely replicated and distributed at high quality thru filesharing and DLing.
This music can then easily be burnt and spun on CD decks by eager DJs who dont have authorisation, a situtation that would extremely rarely have happened in the 1990s (for example).

Motive, means, method, all there. I am not arguing CD DJing is the CAUSE of piracy, but if you think they arent strongly linked you've got your head in the sand.

I notice you have qualified your statement by saying its hard to effectively argue, so I am assuming you'll dismiss my argument out of hand.

 

[xen]

Don't forget, back in t' day when this tinterweb weren't around, and I were but a nipper, DJs still cut other producers' dubs without asking their permission first, so piracy as a concept in the D&B scene isn't strictly confined to the 21st century

 

[mesh]

Don't forget, back in t' day when this tinterweb weren't around, and I were but a nipper, DJs still cut other producers' dubs without asking their permission first, so piracy as a concept in the D&B scene isn't strictly confined to the 21st century

oh yeah, perfectly aware of that man, but how can you even compare that to what can happen to now, where every wannabe DJ on the freakin planet can do the same thing.? No matter where they live, or what connections.

I said it happened extremely rarely, and in comparison with today's situtation, I stand by that.

 

[sirGUNZ]

its ok to.. use cdj's when u r just slippin a dub or a tune from the studio u wanna test on occasions.
ie a tune that u have downloaded that u shudant ave..
but vinyl is still no1..