Vengeance Packs for Drums

Hate to be captain obvious here, but a track isn't 100% kick and snare. If you do your own thing with most other aspects of production, and use vengeance kicks + snares, you won't sound exactly the same as everyone else.

Of course but do you remember the days when producers used to have their own sound and you could tell who made a track just by the drum sound.
Now lots of artists are drawing from the same pallet and one track could sound like 10 different people
 
I hear what you're saying Sam and I agree with you. However there must be a difference between good samples and bad samples. Vengeance - are the good or bad? They get used a lot.

I think that's also not a bad thing. Let's compare samples to buildings. Buildings have a lot of the same elements that other buildings have. If there is a good brick supplier in town, all of the same architects will want to see their vision fulfilled with these bricks. Regardless of whether mr other architect used the same bricks. It's how the bricks fit in context with the rest of the building.

Location? What style of building? Purpose of building? Colour? Roof? Fountains and stuff?

It's not the bricks that will make the final product generic. It's the overall impression when looking at or walking through the building that makes it look plain or fresh.


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Hate to be captain obvious here, but a track isn't 100% kick and snare. If you do your own thing with most other aspects of production, and use vengeance kicks + snares, you won't sound exactly the same as everyone else.

Your kick and snare will.

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I hear what you're saying Sam and I agree with you. However there must be a difference between good samples and bad samples. Vengeance - are the good or bad? They get used a lot.

I think that's also not a bad thing. Let's compare samples to buildings. Buildings have a lot of the same elements that other buildings have. If there is a good brick supplier in town, all of the same architects will want to see their vision fulfilled with these bricks. Regardless of whether mr other architect used the same bricks. It's how the bricks fit in context with the rest of the building.

Location? What style of building? Purpose of building? Colour? Roof? Fountains and stuff?

It's not the bricks that will make the final product generic. It's the overall impression when looking at or walking through the building that makes it look plain or fresh.


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Drums are not there just as a foundation for the rest of the track. Drums have character and are one of the most important aspects of drum & bass.

If everybody just used what works we would never make any progress and new things would never be created. Making music is an art form, experimenting and being creative is what we should all be encouraging one another to do.

It depends on why you do this though.
 
Wait, you people are arguing about people who use vengeance packs all sound the same, etc, etc, etc. But let's think: if we all use the sample as it is, without processing, then yes, it will sound the same. But we do our own things to it, right? distortion, saturation, reverb, phasing, I mean, we all can get different results, even using the same "snare 33" on the "Essencial Clubsounds 3".

To take this a little further: we make music so other people can listen to it. And our aim is the everyday joe, who won't even know that there's a "vengeance pack" behind the punchy drums he's listening to.
 
Your kick and snare will.

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Drums are not there just as a foundation for the rest of the track. Drums have character and are one of the most important aspects of drum & bass.

If everybody just used what works we would never make any progress and new things would never be created. Making music is an art form, experimenting and being creative is what we should all be encouraging one another to do.

It depends on why you do this though.

DarkYsidro is right. It's about how the sample is processed afterwards as well. Take the amen break for example! It's synonymous with dnb. Probably used just as much as vengeance ;) Chopped, gated, distorted, reversed, pitched up / down etc. and sometimes it's just left as is. It's an art form. You're right JReilly. It's up to the producer. Choose from a well known sample pack or not. Process it. Or not.

End of the day - is vengeance a good source? Or is it overprocessed like everyone keeps saying? Regarding further processing of vengeance samples. Does it work to gain the sample down at source? Ie. gaining it down in a sample editor so that it can be processed further? Or is any further processing theoretically causing the sample to soft clip (seeing that it was originally processed and limited to sit at 0db peak / rms / whatever) ? I.e. Can it still be driven further by just gaining it down before processing again?


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To take this a little further: we make music so other people can listen to it. And our aim is the everyday joe, who won't even know that there's a "vengeance pack" behind the punchy drums he's listening to.

Speak for yourself dude, I make music, because it's fun and I enjoy it, also because it's a way of expressing myself artiscally and creatively, something, IMO, I think everybody needs. If other people relate to it and appreciate my work then that would make me happy but I'm not doing this so that the everyday joe has a soundtrack to his weekend bender.

As I said it depends on why you do this.

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DarkYsidro is right. It's about how the sample is processed afterwards as well. Take the amen break for example! It's synonymous with dnb. Probably used just as much as vengeance ;) Chopped, gated, distorted, reversed, pitched up / down etc. and sometimes it's just left as is. It's an art form. You're right JReilly. It's up to the producer. Choose from a well known sample pack or not. Process it. Or not.

End of the day - is vengeance a good source? Or is it overprocessed like everyone keeps saying? Regarding further processing of vengeance samples. Does it work to gain the sample down at source? Ie. gaining it down in a sample editor so that it can be processed further? Or is any further processing theoretically causing the sample to soft clip (seeing that it was originally processed and limited to sit at 0db peak / rms / whatever) ? I.e. Can it still be driven further by just gaining it down before processing again?


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The reason the Amen break was used so much was down to the fact that sounds and samples were not easy to get hold of. High end studio equipment was out of the average drum & bass producers budget back in the day so they made the most of what they had available and got creative.This was the days before DAW's, and before the internet.

We have unlimited sounds at our disposal today, why limit yourself. Especially with overpriced, over rated samples because the company has a good marketing strategy.

IMO, it doesn't make sense to spend so much money on a sample pack, to then have to go in and process it just to disguise it.
 
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Wait, you people are arguing about people who use vengeance packs all sound the same, etc, etc, etc. But let's think: if we all use the sample as it is, without processing, then yes, it will sound the same. But we do our own things to it, right? distortion, saturation, reverb, phasing, I mean, we all can get different results, even using the same "snare 33" on the "Essencial Clubsounds 3".

To take this a little further: we make music so other people can listen to it. And our aim is the everyday joe, who won't even know that there's a "vengeance pack" behind the punchy drums he's listening to.
Is it just me, or are vengeance samples not good for processing because they're already massively processed? I mean normally I might layer a snare up to make it fat, then add some distortion for more fatness and character, but there's no point distorting a vengeance snare because it's been designed to use straight out the box and it's already been compressed, distorted etc. Same goes for layering.
Vengeance aren't designed to be processed.

I agree with JReilly on this one.
 
Speak for yourself dude, I make music, because it's fun and I enjoy it, also because it's a way of expressing myself artiscally and creatively, something, IMO, I think everybody needs. If other people relate to it and appreciate my work then that would make me happy but I'm not doing this so that the everyday joe has a soundtrack to his weekend bender.

As I said it depends on why you do this.

I didn't said that we don't do this because we like doing music, man. I said that one thing that is inherent to this "career" we chose is to get recognition, right? And the recognition comes from the average joe out there. The guy who will put one of your songs on a family pic-nic in the park.
 
I didn't said that we don't do this because we like doing music, man. I said that one thing that is inherent to this "career" we chose is to get recognition, right? And the recognition comes from the average joe out there. The guy who will put one of your songs on a family pic-nic in the park.

If you want recognition, finding a balance of appealing to the average joe while gaining the respect of your peers is important. The people buying the music might not give a shit about how the song was constructed but the in order to get to that point, you will need to be sending out Demo's, to labels, and the chances are, they are run by producers or people who understand music more than the average Joe.

But to each their own. If what your doing is working for you go for it. I just think people get caught up trying to make the sound that is hot right now, following the trends and forget that this is art form. Being able to demonstrate that you are an artist in your own right while being able to relate what you do to the average Joe is, IMO, is what will make your "career" a succesful one.
 
This is comedy.......29 replies and i think maybe 1 recommendation. Oh well, never mind.

Bro, I'm so glad that you can count. Now try reading the above again. Maybe you will find answers. Or not. Oh well, never mind.

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Check this out.
Savant talks about Vengeance ( Seamless Live 21: Savant )

Here:

http://youtu.be/Gfmhe6qNIbc?t=39m10s

and

Here:

http://youtu.be/Gfmhe6qNIbc?t=1h11m50s
 
This is comedy.......29 replies and i think maybe 1 recommendation. Oh well, never mind.

It's probably good advice though, even if it's not what you were looking for.

If you are 100% set on vengeance and nothing said here changes your mind, go and ask on future producers forum- they'll tell you.
 
I own about every Vengeance Pack available. I like them. I don't LOVE them.

There are kicks a plenty...many of the same ones repeated. The reason many people on here are telling you to look elsewhere is because taking time to try and craft the "perfect" kick via layering is time consuming and you typically end up with shit.

This is all you will ever need.

You can create your own layered kicks. There are two sections: one for the attack portion of the kick (this is for the "click") and the a body portion for the low end. This is, without a doubt, the best kick producing plugin I've ever used. You can even set the key of the kick with the click of a button.

I can't say enough good things about this plugin. Watch this quick overview. Love it. Buy it. Stop wasting time scanning Vengeance packs.

Cheers.
 
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