VALKYIRIE

Dan M

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#1
watched this last night. i love war films but this one just made me wanna shank goebhels.

tom cruise is average and the culture thing is so british/american but i still would advise any film buff to go see it as its quite correct from a historical standpoint and an eyeopener in regards to the german nation under the rule of hitler.

ad give it 3/half out of 5 stars
 

Dustek

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#3
Making Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg out to be a hero is fucking bollocks.

Part of the German army turned against Hitler because Germany was losing the war. Not out of a hatred of Nazism. The majority of officers and soldiers loved the benefits they enjoyed under during rearmament and the winning part of the law.

Mr German Hero Stauffenberg was loyal Nazi until the war turned ugly for Germany and shared Nazi views of racial superiority, in particular he wanted Eastern Europe to be turned into a German colony - and its inhabitants into human cattle.

If the plot against Hitler had been successful and Stauffenberg and his aristocratic nationalist militaristic friends had gotten what they wanted, there would have been no general surrender, no removal of Nazi officials, no complete retreat from occupied territory (including Austria, parts of Poland, Italy and France) and no handing over of war criminals.

Talking about a German resistance movement against the Nazis is a lie against history.
 

Dan M

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Making Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg out to be a hero is fucking bollocks.

Part of the German army turned against Hitler because Germany was losing the war. Not out of a hatred of Nazism. The majority of officers and soldiers loved the benefits they enjoyed under during rearmament and the winning part of the law.

Mr German Hero Stauffenberg was loyal Nazi until the war turned ugly for Germany and shared Nazi views of racial superiority, in particular he wanted Eastern Europe to be turned into a German colony - and its inhabitants into human cattle.

If the plot against Hitler had been successful and Stauffenberg and his aristocratic nationalist militaristic friends had gotten what they wanted, there would have been no general surrender, no removal of Nazi officials, no complete retreat from occupied territory (including Austria, parts of Poland, Italy and France) and no handing over of war criminals.

Talking about a German resistance movement against the Nazis is a lie against history.
yeah......at the end theres a guy who basically bottled it and ended up gettin hung anyway and i thought then that this film is really doing its best to glorify the nazis but just before the final credits a statement came on screen sayin that there were 15 attempts to overthrow hitler from the germans. so when i got in i spent an hour researching the validity of the attempts and im on a different cpu now so i cant post what i found but the attempts where well constructed largescale political overthrows and this made me wonder about exactly what you mentioned dustek, were they jus vein attempts at salvaging any leftover dignity or was there a bigger reovlt than i thought there was. either way we know prior to nearing the end of ww2 the nation was happily living off the good times hitler brought and kept sweeping the opphorent things under the carpet.
 

Dustek

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yeah......at the end theres a guy who basically bottled it and ended up gettin hung anyway and i thought then that this film is really doing its best to glorify the nazis but just before the final credits a statement came on screen sayin that there were 15 attempts to overthrow hitler from the germans. so when i got in i spent an hour researching the validity of the attempts and im on a different cpu now so i cant post what i found but the attempts where well constructed largescale political overthrows and this made me wonder about exactly what you mentioned dustek, were they jus vein attempts at salvaging any leftover dignity or was there a bigger reovlt than i thought there was. either way we know prior to nearing the end of ww2 the nation was happily living off the good times hitler brought and kept sweeping the opphorent things under the carpet.
Yep, quite right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Resistance

The serious plots against Hitler were motivated at first by fear of war and its consequences (prior to 1939) and then by the obvious loss of the war.

An excellent book about German society and its relationship with Nazism is A Social History of the Third Reich. I often peruse it while sitting on the bog. Apt I think.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-History-Third-Reich/dp/0753819384
 

DeeGun

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#10
Making Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg out to be a hero is fucking bollocks.

Part of the German army turned against Hitler because Germany was losing the war. Not out of a hatred of Nazism. The majority of officers and soldiers loved the benefits they enjoyed under during rearmament and the winning part of the law.

Mr German Hero Stauffenberg was loyal Nazi until the war turned ugly for Germany and shared Nazi views of racial superiority, in particular he wanted Eastern Europe to be turned into a German colony - and its inhabitants into human cattle.

If the plot against Hitler had been successful and Stauffenberg and his aristocratic nationalist militaristic friends had gotten what they wanted, there would have been no general surrender, no removal of Nazi officials, no complete retreat from occupied territory (including Austria, parts of Poland, Italy and France) and no handing over of war criminals.

Talking about a German resistance movement against the Nazis is a lie against history.
Don´t believe this guy.
 

Dustek

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#11
That's a convincing argument. You must have been reading up Schopenhauer's Die eristische Dialektik.

Let's quote Wiki shall we:
"On June 6, 1944, the Allies had landed in France on D-Day. Stauffenberg, like most other German professional military officers, had absolutely no doubt that the war was now lost. Only an immediate armistice could avoid more unnecessary bloodshed and further damage to Germany, its people, and most other European nations. However, in late 1943, he had written out demands with which he felt the Allies had to comply in order for Germany to agree to an immediate peace. These demands included Germany retaining its 1914 eastern borders, including the Polish territories of Wielkopolska and Poznań.[12] Other demands included Germany keeping such territorial gains as Austria and the Sudetenland within the Reich, giving autonomy to Alsace-Lorraine, and even expansion of the current wartime borders of Germany in the south by annexing Tyrol as far as Bolzano and Merano. Non-territorial demands included such points as refusal of any occupation of Germany by the Allies, as well as refusal to hand over war criminals by demanding the right of "nations to deal with its own criminals". These proposals were only directed to the Western Allies — Stauffenberg wanted Germany only to retreat from Western, Southern and Northern positions, while demanding the right to continue military occupation of German territorial gains in the East.[13] After the allied landing in Normandy von Tresckow and Stauffenberg understood that their attempt at an negotiated peace was then only symbolic. The war would be ended only by the unconditional surrender of Germany."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claus_von_Stauffenberg

As far as organised resistance is concerned - seriously began in 1944.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Resistance

Read some books.
 

DeeGun

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#12
This article includes a list of references or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations. Please improve this article by introducing more precise citations where appropriate.
This is where you got your dangerous half knowledge from..

Sure they might not have been willing to give territories back, thats not what I´m complaining about.

Its this:

Talking about a German resistance movement against the Nazis is a lie against history.
First of all there was resistance, you posted the wikipedia link..did you read the content? Sure there was no hard resistance but would you have been willing to risk your life?
Terror was brought to the german people aswell with the SS and the SA.Would you just say anything and risk to be brought in a KZ or to be killed immediately?Yeah, I´m sure you would act like a hero..Pfft.

Germany was rock bottom, he brought some sort of "get up mood", they followed blind and you would have too, first row, "Sieg Heil" screaming.

no complete retreat from occupied territory (including Austria, parts of Poland, Italy and France) and no handing over of war criminals.
Austria wasn´t occupied at all..After WW1 the austrians wanted to be part of germany and I doubt they were disappointed that it happened later.

Südtirol, Elsaß-Lothringen were german whenever..I´m sure you know that, you just won´t mention..

I am Italian but I have to admit Tirol is italian like an eskimo..
and you know parts of poland have never been polish till 1945.

I just can´t lose the feeling you grab every short straw to say something against germany or germans even though this is about WW2, it smells like.

The Killers are dead.

We´re not in Debt anymore.

either way we know prior to nearing the end of ww2 the nation was happily living off the good times hitler brought
Yeah, shiny happy people all over the ruins of Dresden and Hamburg riding in the rollercoasters Hitler built for fun.:rolleyes:

Read some books.
Look in the mirror.
 
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