V/A - Reflections LP - Renegade Hardware

[dambusters]

That Perez remix is deadout anyway
Way to suck the fun out of something

The politics I have no opinion on

 

[SteveR94]

If you remix a tune its only right to let the label and artist know about it first. Whether its good (iyo) or different from the original is totally irrelevant, and giving it away for free or for sale without consent is a pisstake.

Not sure how people are having trouble understanding this point, it makes perfect sense. If you make a remix of a tune, show it to the label and artist, get their approval. How it gets released is down to them, not the remixer.

 

[Fallen.GeMiNi]

No, what you're saying goes fundamentally against the whole jungle/drum & bass culture. Need I remind you of how many times someone did a bootleg of a tune and made it available for free? Literally thousands. You can't apply the stuff you're claiming while you're ok with someone sampling a melody/break/vocal/whatever not following the procedure you propose. It just doesn't work that way. It's the same case as if you did a fan video, using a tune as a musical background or when you mix your records. Who gave you the right (or consent) to use it/them? No one. And no one ever will. You don't use it commercially, therefore it's somehow ok. He gave it away for free, not that he needed to remix the tune, not that he needed to even put it out in any way, as it surely didn't help him in achieving anything, but he did, for your pleasure. You should be grateful, as I can imagine how would it went down should he sent it to Clayton first (how fucking dare you touching this? I am releasing it, you'll never ever see a dime). I swear people like him and Goldie are over-reacting and so full of shit when they deny others the liberty of working on whatever the artists see fit.
And it's so funny, because Clayton of all people should shut the fuck up about taking the liberty of releasing tunes how someone else pleases as he wasn't afraid to pull a gun when taking Messiah away from Konflict (along with their alias).

 

[Vydx]

I suppose reading comprehension is quite difficult from down there kissing Perez' ass:-

let me clear something up,alix sent me remix we were thinking what project should it go on,before we had a chance to make a choice he puts it up as a free download,without calling or asking me,obviously i was pissed at that ....so we thought might as well put it on ep as he has put it up for free then the fassyhole trys to go online and start talking greasy #championwasteman

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1611203539201225&id=100009347821762&comment_id=1611280915860154&reply_comment_id=1611292542525658&comment_tracking={"tn":"R9"}

Bootleg was approved, giving it out for free was a mistake but could've been handled privately, what's not OK is to bitch on social media about the label wanting to put out your approved remix that THEY own the rights to. If you can't understand this, you need to go back to school or something.

I disagree. If Perez' remix would have been shit Clayton wouldn't of been arsed. Only issue here is, it's a decent remix and money could have been made.

Not surprised Perez decided to put the track out for a freebee rather than going into any form of discussions about money with Hardware, given the reputation they have.

Who decides if a remix is good? For the record I actually like the remix

 

[Boycot]

Clayton really is the pot calling the kettle black, that's how I see it.
Tunes are ok'ish.

 

[TheNitwits]

Can't really have a go at Alix Perez for this. I wonder how many times Clayton has asked permission for his artists to use the Amen Break? An he will have make money off those tracks.

lol. these 'remixes' were released on Hardware without permission of original producers too :
- future cut horns (egyptian empire horn track)
- dylan spasm (second phase mentasm)

 

[Shotty]

Who decides if a remix is good? For the record I actually like the remix

My point was simply that if this remix was done by a nobody Clayton wouldn't have even been arsed that it was remixed and given out.

An for the record I ain't a Perez fan boy, I only own one or two tracks he has made.

the only way I would expect Perez to have checked with Clayton/RH first is if he was given the original stems to do the remix.

I am under the assumption that he has just sampled the track to remix. In which case he is doing what people have done in this scene since it began.

 

[Fallen.GeMiNi]

I suppose reading comprehension is quite difficult from down there kissing Perez' ass:-



Bootleg was approved, giving it out for free was a mistake but could've been handled privately, what's not OK is to bitch on social media about the label wanting to put out your approved remix that THEY own the rights to. If you can't understand this, you need to go back to school or something.

Skipped that part, my bad. And tbh, I wouldn't take Clayton's word for that. Might as well send it to them years ago and since he didn't receive any answer, he decided to put it out for free. That kinda sorts out the issue some ppl were pointing out that he should have contacted the label. Apparently, he did. Plus it's kinda funny how some people are viewing this and basically the whole scene nowadays. We are still claiming to be an underground movement, at least some part of it and flagship a few producers who stand their ground...and then they come and take hundreds/thousands of pounds for playing out and what not. After all, and to agree ironically with one of the comments under Clayton's status, it's not really about the love anymore. So can I sell this fkin remix or what? Can I? Ok, I'll release it.

 

[sikreecem8]

He gave it away for free, not that he needed to remix the tune, not that he needed to even put it out in any way, as it surely didn't help him in achieving anything, but he did, for your pleasure. You should be grateful...

so now not only must clayton (or any producer/label owner) be happy with anyone remixing any of his backcatalog. he must be grateful.
should he be grateful if anyone remixes his labels music and releases it without consent? or just if you personally like the remix/er?

That kinda sorts out the issue some ppl were pointing out that he should have contacted the label. Apparently, he did.

You have completely missed the point.
He was not given a response.
You are assuming that not getting a response is consent to do what you like, which is completely ridiculous.



Its not a huge issue, I just find it odd to come into a thread and claim this situation is another reason why clayton is a dickhead, its totally bizarre.

 

[Vydx]

Skipped that part, my bad. And tbh, I wouldn't take Clayton's word for that. Might as well send it to them years ago and since he didn't receive any answer, he decided to put it out for free. That kinda sorts out the issue some ppl were pointing out that he should have contacted the label. Apparently, he did. Plus it's kinda funny how some people are viewing this and basically the whole scene nowadays. We are still claiming to be an underground movement, at least some part of it and flagship a few producers who stand their ground...and then they come and take hundreds/thousands of pounds for playing out and what not. After all, and to agree ironically with one of the comments under Clayton's status, it's not really about the love anymore. So can I sell this fkin remix or what? Can I? Ok, I'll release it.

You may as well be right, we cannot know for sure what happened, and at the end of the day Clayton remains, by publicly rambling, as you and others have said, not at all professional or respectful in these matters.

 

[Fallen.GeMiNi]

so now not only must clayton (or any producer/label owner) be happy with anyone remixing any of his backcatalog. he must be grateful.
should he be grateful if anyone remixes his labels music and releases it without consent? or just if you personally like the remix/er?


You have completely missed the point.
He was not given a response.
You are assuming that not getting a response is consent to do what you like, which is completely ridiculous.

Its not a huge issue, I just find it odd to come into a thread and claim this situation is another reason why clayton is a dickhead, its totally bizarre.

1) I was talking about you (fans of good music in general), not Clayton.

2) And you are just completely ignoring all the points being repeated all over this thread. This has been done in drum & bass (electronic music) for ages. It is what it is. Once again, you're not asking if the label is ok when you play their tune in your mix either etc. etc. If it's really about the music first, who the fuck cares if it comes out for free or on a label? Apparently someone, who needs more drama and money.

3) It could have been solved much more politely from both sides. If Clayton wanted, he could have avoided all this cringey drama easily, but no. So yeah, it serves as a proof he's a dickhead.

 

[Menosance]

I just want to say one phrase regarding this drama:

REMIX COMPETITIONS

That is all. For now.

 

[sikreecem8]

1) I was talking about you (fans of good music in general), not Clayton.

2) And you are just completely ignoring all the points being repeated all over this thread. This has been done in drum & bass (electronic music) for ages. It is what it is. Once again, you're not asking if the label is ok when you play their tune in your mix either etc. etc. If it's really about the music first, who the fuck cares if it comes out for free or on a label? Apparently someone, who needs more drama and money.

3) It could have been solved much more politely from both sides. If Clayton wanted, he could have avoided all this cringey drama easily, but no. So yeah, it serves as a proof he's a dickhead.

What i think of the tune is irrelevant.

Its no ones right to release the tune again or any remixes without the consent from those involved with the original tune.
It really is this basic.

I mean, you can do it and its likely no one will sue or do much apart from moan (even tho they are within their right to do so), but its a dickhead move to presume that they want you to put it out, or that you don't even care if they do or not.

And then to call the rights holder a dickhead after this is done is off base.


Do you not think label owners and producers should have say in what is released with their own name on it?

 

[beknoxx]

Clayton should push him down some stairs and get it over with ......

 

[Fallen.GeMiNi]

What i think of the tune is irrelevant.

Its no ones right to release the tune again or any remixes without the consent from those involved with the original tune.
It really is this basic.

I mean, you can do it and its likely no one will sue or do much apart from moan (even tho they are within their right to do so), but its a dickhead move to presume that they want you to put it out, or that you don't even care if they do or not.

And then to call the rights holder a dickhead after this is done is off base.


Do you not think label owners and producers should have say in what is released with their own name on it?

It is also no one's right to release a tune heavily sampling another people's creations, yet we see that happening daily. I mean, what is the point of all this? The art always was and should be about free creativity. But then the money got in the game. Again, I'm not saying it's ok to rip off someone's work. But did that happen in this particular case? No, it didn't. Ripping off would mean doing a few minor touches and releasing it in order to gain income. If anyone should have a say in this, it's Future Cut, i.e. the artist(s) who made the tune in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I respect people who put their effort into putting out various great music, but if it was really about the art (music) itself, we wouldn't need brands/labels to push it. There's no "RENEGADE HARDWARE" stamp on that remix, only Future Cut. So if Future Cut would moan about someone touching their tune, I would say that's fair (even though I don't really think you should deprive others of their own free choice of what to do and what not). But all I see so far is Clayton coming across like a drama queen once again because someone dared to play with one of his toys (most likely due to his inability to even say something like "that's a good remix man, I'd like to release it at some point").

 

[Exxcessivve]

Pretty much entirely aligned with your views @Fallen.GeMiNi

 

[Tundra]

REMIX STAIRS

 

[sikreecem8]

So anyone can do a 'remix' of anything (which basically means anything from totally switching the tune up, to adding a cowbell, or just moving the sequence around) and release it without getting consent and everyone should be happy about this, and even grateful, because people have done bootlegs in the past? and if the copyright holder disagrees they are a dickhead. Its ridiculous.

People will do it anyway, but to then to call the rights-holder a dickhead for not being in complete support of this everytime it happens is nonsensical.

 

[Fallen.GeMiNi]

So anyone can do a 'remix' of anything (which basically means anything from totally switching the tune up, to adding a cowbell, or just moving the sequence around) and release it without getting consent and everyone should be happy about this, and even grateful, because people have done bootlegs in the past? and if the copyright holder disagrees they are a dickhead. Its ridiculous.

People will do it anyway, but to then to call the rights-holder a dickhead for not being in complete support of this everytime it happens is nonsensical.

C'mon man... Yeah, anyone can remix anything as far as I'm concerned. I, for one, wouldn't mind if someone were to "touch" one of my creations (should I ever have any). It's called moving forward. Yeah, I might not like the remix and yeah, I'd be pissed if someone added a cowbell and sold it without even asking me, but if that someone would give it away for free, I'd be totally ok with that. The way I see it, I don't know why someone who has fuck all to do with the whole effort of putting together a tune should come across all yelling "OMG SOMEONE STOLE MY PROPERTY, YOU LITTLE UNGRATEFUL FUCK". Instead, he should be grateful that the original artist even gave enough fuck to pass him the rights to his own creation in the first place (and the one who did the remix gave enough fuck to send it to him first). Again, to repeat what I've mentioned above, I have a lot of respect for the effort labels put into releasing music, but frankly, in the best case scenario, there wouldn't be any of them needed.

 

[sikreecem8]

Yeah, I might not like the remix and yeah, I'd be pissed if someone added a cowbell and sold it without even asking me, but if that someone would give it away for free, I'd be totally ok with that.

I think this is where your opinion would vary from the vast majority of people creating and releasing music.

The way I see it, I don't know why someone who has fuck all to do with the whole effort of putting together a tune should come across all yelling

The way he handled it wasn't great, and i don't agree with it.
Much like i don't agree with the bootlegger calling him out after releasing the bootleg, without consent.

Instead, he should be grateful that the original artist even gave enough fuck to pass him the rights to his own creation in the first place (and the one who did the remix gave enough fuck to send it to him first).

I would imagine he is very grateful for all the music he has been able to release over the years.
Not sure why this would make any less difference to how he perceives people coming along and rereleasing it without consent.

Again, to repeat what I've mentioned above, I have a lot of respect for the effort labels put into releasing music, but frankly, in the best case scenario, there wouldn't be any of them needed.

The reality is that they are sometimes needed, and can help a lot of artists. But you personally not agreeing with there existence, for whatever reason, is no reason to justify this.


Its a good little discussion, and agreed lines can get blurred. but, i don't think it helps to assume everyone should be happy with it happening. Or that disagreeing makes you a dickhead.
People spend lot of effort and time to create and refine what they're are putting out, and having this watered down with untold bootlegs you may not even like is disrespectful.
People are gonna bootleg tunes, it will happen a million time still but i wouldn't imagine you will make many friends of the people involved by releasing them without consent.