the dub techno thread (samples, theory, techniques, plugs, synths, WIPs, etc)

Discussion in 'Production' started by logikz, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    Hi Team,

    I got this idea from DOA which has two fine, fiiine threads on the subject which are excellent resources, with a lot of intelligent cats exchanging related banter. I dont know how well you men know dub techno, or indeed if you know it at all, but for those of you whos heard it, fallen for it, as you tend to do, when youre a man about town, which there is no point in doubting you are. also, ive been a basic channel fan for years now. granted its mainly quadrant dub II, but that tune is my shit.

    So, this is dub techno discussion!

    Post tune recommendations, ideas, methods, WIPs, your suggested synths and preferred plugs. i will start by saying just like the name implies, dubwise plugs will do the trick, so interruptor delays should fit the bill, and the chords are fifths, apparently. i got this video below from the doa discussion, and never mind the synth, whaat kind of synth it is is completely arbitrary, do not think for a second that you need a big old fancy analog synth, but you will need something to make something. im going to have a go, and when i get an idea of what i like to use to get the kind of sound im after, ill post it. as you can tell, this is total beginners thread.

    but he does set his osc to fifth somewhere around 2 minutes in this vid, and it sounds about right (my music theory is shit so i dont know if it actually is called fifths):


    have you tried your hand at dub techno? care to share the results? its dnb, there is a strong connection to dub and techno, so i dont think its a very far fetched topic. like i said, im about to try my hand at it and i will post the results. maybe. does this interest anybody else? i know @Innovine and @jmzmaloney are down, who else?

    DOA resources:
    http://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/dub-techno-style-chords.773691/unread
    http://www.dogsonacid.com/threads/tips-for-producing-dub-techno.563153/



    oh shit, dub techno compo! maybe, when ivans compo is over, etc?
     
    Alert likes this.
  2. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    I've got no tips as I've never made any Dub Techno but fancy making some Dub Techno influenced D&B so interested if there are other tips and guides in addition to the great DOA threads.
     
  3. saganspirit

    saganspirit Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    10
    Yeah they're close-ish related genres. @logikz link us some tunes man.
     
  4. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    Listening to more and more dub techno, my idea of minimal was basically dnb mixed with dub techno, looking back at it. I might upload an old WIP but other than that I don't think I have much to offer @saganspirit

    I am still trying to hammer out a credible dub techno groove but ill certainly upload that when the time is right.

    As for synths and plugs for drums and leads anything will do, but I'll post a list if I ever manage to make something good
     
  5. IV4

    IV4 Currently a newt.

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    5,162
    Likes Received:
    1,417


    I'm down if I can make tracks like this.
     
  6. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    sure you can, thats one way of doing it, indeed it is old vanja. im trying to figure out how to maintain the mental stability to let the same damn chord run for 5 minutes + in different states of fuckery.
     
  7. Saftstein

    Saftstein Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Austria
  8. jmzmaloney

    jmzmaloney ENTHUSED WITH ETHNOGRAPHIC PLUNDERPHONICS Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    11,155
    Likes Received:
    2,599
    Location:
    KARLS TLACK BWAT
    This mix is amazing

     
  9. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    I've almost finished a Dubtechno inspired D&B tune. I'll post a link up when I've finished it then people can let me know if its atmospheric & deep or just boring!
     
  10. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2013
    Messages:
    4,090
    Likes Received:
    888
    Location:
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Never heard of the sub-genre, not even know how it sounds. It's like the kick-kick-kick-kick of techno, with sweet rolling sub basses, and a percussion here and there?

    Also, being it dub, will the kick sound like a real kick from a drumkit, or a 909 type of kick present in many Techno tunes?

    Also, mixing it with dnb, specially at 174bpm, instead of dub wouldn't it sound like a dystopian type of Hardcore?

    Plus, same chord throughout the entire song? That's what I call repetition.
     
  11. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    Sounds good to me!
     
  12. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    As threatened here are a couple of tracks I've put together inspired by some of the production discussions on DOA about Dub Techno

     
    logikz likes this.
  13. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    its REALLY nice man, would you mind telling us a little how you went about it?

    one thing strikes me as immediately noticable after listening to your track again, it is missing all the delay/filter/vol env action on the chord sequence. its the hallmark of dub techno, and your tune doesnt feel quite finished without it. check quadrant dub II by basic channel for the low down on how to do that.
     
  14. Yukon

    Yukon Yukon

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2013
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    21
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I felt like some of the ivylab is dubtechno inspired so I gave it crack
     
    logikz likes this.
  15. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    Thanks, glad you liked it. I can't do it now but I will try and explain how I put it together soon.

    I automated the filter cut off of the chord stabs through the track but I didn't play around with synth envelope or the delay parameters (apart from the start of one of the breakdowns). I blame it on being preoccupied thinking that I need to add extra elements to sustain interest rather than just working with automation of the main elements. I'm not planning on going back in on that track but I'll probably carry over some of the things I've learnt onto future tracks.
     
  16. Fluff

    Fluff Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    421
    Likes Received:
    73
    Location:
    Bristol
    As promised here is some more info on how I made Odyssey Dub. I'll skip over anything thats normal practice in D&B and focus on the Dub Techno elements. I'm using Logic X.
    So I started with a Korg Polysix plug-in bass stab patch played in the low midrange. Something with a nice bright sound when the filter was fully open. I put on some plug-ins (a phaser, sample delay, and a bit of overdrive through a 6X-500 CM). I put a send out to a delay channel using Tape Delay (quite high feedback) passing through Space Designer). In fact I used two delay sends on the track and sent different parts to each channel rather than one. I then made up the chord sequence which used 4 chords in a pattern that repeated every 4 bars. Once I was satisfied I had enough chords and modulation possibilities to make a track I moved on to the other parts.

    As a background and to give the ambience to the track I found a recording on soundcloud of a rainstorm. Generally its quite low in level but I used a couple of points where the storm got worse in the recording to bring the sound more to the fore front during the breakdowns. I layered a pad from Alchemy (Fade Away) on top of this. I bounced it out and put a HP filter on it that I used to filter it in and out as other parts were added. I used a second string pad from Arturia Jupiter-8 for the midpoint breakdown.

    All of these pads and sounds were sent to a long reverb to allow them to wash over the track.

    The beats & bass were in many ways similar to how I normally put together a D&B track but I used less elements (one main break with one layered break & two percussion tracks, and a single reese with one other modulated bass sound playing occasionally) than I normally would and instead used low pass filtering on each group to filter in and out each part.

    To provide further interest I put in another synth sound (this time a Jupiter stab) sent to a different delay channel. I have to admit I don't really like this sound or its pattern.

    The final novel (for me at least) element I put in was a noise channel made using the noise source (the tape noise setting) on NI Massive using the synth LP filter to control the level of high frequencies let through.

    The next stage was roughly arranging the track where I knew I wanted particular sounds to play and drawing in automation for the beats & bass which I wanted to be foundation of the track. I then live recorded the automation for the two synth stab sounds and the noise synth as the track played through.

    I then stuck on some basic mastering to hopefully give the track a more polished sound and didn't spend too much time trying to get a louder track as I'd normally feel compelled to do.

    I hope thats of interest. Feel free to ask me any questions as this is just a quick brain dump!
     
    logikz likes this.
  17. Kyba

    Kyba Mew Nember

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    19
    Shamelessly resurrecting old thread :)
    I was inspired by the OP ages ago and finally got round to making something out of it. I basically tried to copy what the guy in the video did but with massive. I ended up with the intro/main atmospheric pad. Then I built the song around the pad. I tried doing it at a slower tempo but wasn't really feeling it so I bumped it up to 174 and ended up with this

    Thoughts??
     
    logikz likes this.
  18. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,547
    Likes Received:
    2,521
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    Dont mind you bumping this thread at all, i think dub techno and dnb is going to be an absolutely MARVELLOUS combination. Pretty sure its been done a thousand times before, but lets reinvent the wheel anyway.


    I really feel like writing music right now, I had forgot how fun this thing was, messing with dub techno pads and stabs, natural ambience recordings and/or noise with LP sweeps, screw around with that for hours, and then tie it off with ticky ticky dnb and a monster sub with death bass.

    Sounds like a breeze when I put it like that, but its really hours upon hours of really intensive surgery, which is like trying to sew two bits of raw fish together, covered in raw oil. And god forbid you get confused, distracted, or discouraged, because then the whole thing can go to hell. Doing stuff im not good at gets the least amount of perseverance, which is directly counter intuitive and unproductive. But its really difficult to do really difficult stuff, that’s the problem with stuff that is difficult, really.


    I like your tune! I don’t like the drums, an amen kit is the one kind of drums I least of all would have wanted to hear on this.

    If you can switch up the kit without too much work, id try a different break. Am I right in thinking that’s a soundfont or similar?

    The programming is nice, but I don’t feel as if it belongs to this kind of sound. I have a vision in my mind which im going by, that aside, your programming is nice and the drums are nice and big in the mix.

    I realize if you have no intention of trying a different drum sound just because someone seems to think so on the internet, I never revisit my tunes after I have finished them, but I do take the critique onboard for my next tune.


    I really like your synth work, great droney pad, with that pluck arp on it. Cool melody on the bass, but a bit standard. You could have gone even more dub techno, I feel as if the sound almost begs for more dub techno influence. The string lead that comes in at the 2nd half is nice, and the synth pluck type stab is nice and techno-y, but I miss a chord with extreme filter and delay automation fuckery to complete the dub techno vibe. The drone really is nice, but somewhat stifled by the drums. Perhaps try sidechaining something with a 2nd bass hit? I guess id like to have it more musical and less stuff, i.e more minimal.


    My idea for dnb drums on top of dub techno at 170 bpm is a more paced, measured, glitchy but still syncopated kind of synthetic sound, perhaps even constructed from synth stabs.

    wasted houuuuuuurs of work time on writing this. flat out refuse to work this morning. haha.
     
  19. Kyba

    Kyba Mew Nember

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2015
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    19
    Interesting comments, I appreciate the critiques. Can you show me some examples of tracks that you think are dub techno inspired dnb pls? I'd love to have an idea of what's been done before. I gotta admit I wasn't sure how it should sound so I made it up as I went along. I won't knock you for not liking my amen, but I cba to go back and change the drums now. I'll experiment with a different drum sound in the future.
    I think I'll go for a deeper vibe in the next track, but I find the more minimal arrangements are harder to write because I want to fill all the spaces with sounds :confused:
    It's been fun experimenting with filter - delay - reverb variations though. Hopefully attempt 2 at this style will turn out better (yn):)(yn)
     
    Fluff likes this.
  20. ManuForti

    ManuForti Detached Audio

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    1,903
    Likes Received:
    673
    Location:
    Scotlander
    Bump for my own ref :lol: