Drum & Bass SUB Bass issues

Discussion in 'Production' started by Apostata, Oct 28, 2015.

  1. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    Hi guys,

    there is something I sometimes have trouble with when producing. As stated above, the sub bass.

    I often get dizzy when hearing too much bass and that sometimes makes production difficult, especially when working with distorted basslines. (while I always have a seperate channel for the sub)

    This happened to me a few days ago, when listening with headphones. Now that doesn't happen when I listen to other, professionally mastered tracks.

    It seems to me that there are some frequencies at around 90 - 130 Hz that cause that. But these are also the frequencies that make up some of the basses. At least that is the case with some of my tracks, where I can't exactly figure out where to place the sub. (just tiny parts of that range seem to matter)

    What I am wondering about is, if it just my hearing or not. Have you ever had similar experiences when producing?

    Where do you cut the Sub? What's your favourite frequency range for the SUB and where do you place the kick?
     
  2. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    Hey there.

    I think I've said that in one of your tracks yesterday (forgive me if it wasn't): Too much information on the sub area, plus a bad mixing can cause some problems.

    I don't know what your setup is, so you might be compensating the lack of sub frequencies by turning them audible (aka letting more frequencies in the low bass area) just because your headphones can't play those frequencies. This obviously makes your tracks too bassy/muddy, as these low frequencies tend to clash with the kick.

    I personally like my subs to be barely audible, cutting them at 60hz, sometimes 70hz. Depending on the kick I'm using (keep in mind that I don't only produce dnb, but also downtempo), I apply sidechaining to get things clearer and whatnot.

    I don't have monitors, so I trust my Beyers and my car audio system to know when something's right or not. Sometimes I have to revise the mixing 4-5 times until I get it right. It takes time to perfect it, but you'll eventually get it right.
     
  3. mr meh

    mr meh Well-Known Member

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    I highpass my subs at 40hz and lowpass between 120hz to 150hz, and eq sidechain wherever the kick hits.

    Don't go overboard with processing on the sub, just use subtle amounts of saturation, overdrive...etc. Keep the eq at the end of the fx chain if you want the sub to sound clean.

    And +1 on checking your mix on a decent car audio system, its very useful for checking where your sub bass sits compared to pro tunes.
     
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  4. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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  5. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    Let me get home later today and I'll listen to it.

    I do have soundcloud, but it's not focused in dnb (I rarely produce dnb nowadays), but anyways: soundcloud.com/tronesdelobscurite
     
  6. fanu

    fanu Active Member

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    The sub you have is pretty nice and the tone is good, but it's not hitting as low as it should.
    I always ask my clients to peep my sub blog post, and it's helped many producers to get it right as you can see it when you're working with your song.
    http://fanumusic.com/production-get-your-sub-bass-right/
     
  7. Solace

    Solace Active Member

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    It's also very useful to use spectrum analyzers. First, slam a professional tune in there so you know how it should look, that use it on your track.
    Referencing can be so useful.

    The sub in your track sounds quite high if I first listen to it...

    The highest freq i personally go with subs is about 55Hz. (I Have made tunes with the sub go higher, but I mean my fundamental never goes above this point)
    The lowest is 34Hz. And that was a bit too low, I ended up pitching everything up.

    The link to my soundcloud is in my signature if you would want to check the shit I made
     
  8. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    Ok, thanks again for the input.

    Now I do have another question, I am running into some trouble with the D note, it's either around 85 Hz or 30 Hz, depending on the octave. When I have the lower octave the D note is too low, when I have the higher octave, it's a bit too high. What to do in such a case?
     
  9. Solace

    Solace Active Member

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    A D isn't too low, not in my opinion. But I know there are other people who thing that's a too low note.

    If you do think it's too low, you can use the 5th or 7th note in the scale, instead of the D and that might work
     
  10. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    Or use volume automation to level it to the other higher notes.
     
  11. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    What about compression? Bad idea?
     
  12. fanu

    fanu Active Member

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    Personally I only ever use compression to control levels.
     
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  13. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    Ok, I have adjusted the volumes of the notes and made the D note louder and the A a little quieter. Put a HP around 70, so that the slide notes are still audible.

    I would very much appreciate if you could have another listen and give me some feedback on the changes.



    Thanks guys!
     
  14. fanu

    fanu Active Member

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    When the lowest bass note plays, fundamental seems to be at 45 Hz. Good stuff.
     
  15. Derelicts Of Tomorrow

    Derelicts Of Tomorrow Breaksmith

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  16. Derelicts Of Tomorrow

    Derelicts Of Tomorrow Breaksmith

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    you what DAW are you using bro? I'd be happy to send you an Ableton project file with a sub bass correctly setup and processed so that you can reverse engineering it if you'd like... holla holla :cool:
     
  17. Derelicts Of Tomorrow

    Derelicts Of Tomorrow Breaksmith

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    also regarding your D note, have you considered composing your music at F2 or G2? That's the key I write all my dnb in and the sub always has plenty of meat
     
  18. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    Thank you very much sir, appreciate it, but FL Studio.

    Well, too late, already made the track and I would have to change the whole composition, that's just too much work... but next time :D
     
  19. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    I keep hearing this a lot, specially for dnb. And tbh, I think that you limit yourself too much when composing in one or two keys only.

    Example: Let's pick de F natural minor scale.

    You have the root at F, 2nd at G, 3rd at G#, 4th at A#, 5th at C, 6th at C# and 7th at D#.

    And this translates to:

    F1 = 43,65hz
    G1 = 49hz
    G#1 = 51,91hz
    A# = 58,27hz
    C2 = 65,41hz (might be clashing with kick, so we go down to C1 = 32,70hz)
    C#2 = 69,30hz (same as above, so C#1 = 34,65hz)
    D#2 = 77,78hz (same as above, so D#1 = 38,89hz)

    What all this means? That you're gonna compose your stuff using the root, second, third and fourth only?

    That's what I'm trying to say
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  20. Apostata

    Apostata Member

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    I agree with you, just have to find a way to make it work cause that would seriously limit the ability to make melodies.