Studio monitors Vs 2.1 speakers (not the tipical monitor cuestion)

Discussion in 'Production' started by drum_master, Jan 29, 2010.

  1. drum_master

    drum_master Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    hi lads
    Iven producing for over 5 years and spended all my money on pc and harware but never spend money in monitors. Im beginig to se that i would had to buy them first. All the time ive routed my outputs to the RCA of my hifi system (regular home aiwa system). Ive noticed that my sound changes a lot when I play my tracks In other places (Lows are too mutch or to weak but not right) the thing is that im on a very low budget and i would like to buy monitors, so here are my questions:

    1- Pc speakers like the 2.1 will give me a more acurate response for lows- sub lows or is it just a waist of money?
    2- I dont know a brand of monitors i would like and im afraid I will be easily talk into buying whatever te guy from the shop recomends me. What is the main thing that i dont have to miss when buying monitors?
    3- Do i need to buy a crossover + low speaker to???
    4- do i have to treat my room with acoustic pannels so I wont have low reververation?
    5- Did I miss anything? what else i can do?

    Thanks for taking the time to read and awnser.

    Cheers

    MD
     
  2. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    *FUCCKCAKSSAACAFKSGDGKJ GASHGSK

    i just wrote a huge response but then i clicked the wrong button

    FITTAN
     
  3. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    In short:

    If you got lots of money, you can get a good pair of monitors and a sub, but to get proper advantage of the sub, you need a dedicated room for that. Most bedroom studios simply lack the size to properly get rid of errors in the sub area. Google "bass traps" if you're interested. In any case it's more about knowing your speakers and knowing how a mix translates to other systems than what brand of speakers you have. Choose speakers by listening to their sound with a track you know has a good balance and mix, not reading the techincal specs or listening to sales speeches.

    2.1 systems rarely have a good response curve, they tend to exxagerate the bass.

    Cheaper alternatives: Alesis (personal fave because i know their sound), KRK, Behringer

    More pricey monitors: Dynaudio, ADAM, Genelec (they have the best subs I've ever heard, but the room was a pro listening space, treated to the max)
     
  4. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    Acoustic treatment is good but making the room dead is not. "Early reflections" are they key here, google that too.
     
  5. Protoplasym

    Protoplasym Nuskool

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2009
    Messages:
    896
    Likes Received:
    5

    LOL.... I hate it when that happens!
     
  6. drum_master

    drum_master Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    thanks.
    So if i get "decent" (not super expensive) monitors such as alesis or krk i wouldnt need the sub bass ? Whould i get a "decent" low frecuency response?

    Im googling bass trap right now
     
  7. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    Yeah I think you can live with that. Getting a good pair of headphones is way cheaper for checking the bass than getting a good sub and treating your room to make the best of it. It's not a matter of headphones VS monitors, it's more like they support each other.
     
  8. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    For example I have the Alesis M1 actives, which can repeat the bass down to about 50Hz pretty accurately. If and when I have a sub-bass sound that I can't hear properly with these monitors, I usually check it with my headphones and my oldskool hifi system that can go a few notches lower than that. I'd really like to get a good sub to go with my monitors, but unfortunately I can't spare the cash or the room ( i do have enough space for the sub, but not for the acoustic treatment it needs). And I don't think my neighbours would appriceate that either.

    I also use a spectrum analyzer for this. If I see a sub note hits between 20-50Hz I'll just keep running on faith and hope that a big club rig will repeat that bass...
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  9. drum_master

    drum_master Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2010
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    0
    iveen told that frecueny below 30 Hz just activates the compressor or limiter but its useles to the mix so the sub low range would be 30 to 90 Hz, am I rigth?? Whats the lowest a pair of monitors and a pair of headphones would go??
     
  10. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    Most Alesis, KRK and behringer boxes will go to 50 no problem. You can hear also the 40 hurtz sounds but they wont be natural. Then again most studio grade headphones (roughly over 100€) will repeat down to 20Hz.

    And yes, sounds below 30hz will trigger compressors and limiters, depending on the treshold, and it's hard to hear them, but i really dont think you need to worry about that. If you have an 80Hz note that doesnt need compressing, why would a 30Hz note need compressing? After all, most subs are purely sine waves and the hertz they go to depend purely on the note, not the EQ settings. If the note goes below that you can simply transpose it an octave higher. Some people say they cut off everything below 30Hz to get the most of the loudness of the tune, just as you said, because of limiters and such. That's alright, but from a personal experience it doesn't need a valve sound system club rig to go a few hertz below that. And that's where you start hitting the clit-tingle notes... talk about a wet dancefloor...

    (this brings me to the point of how futile it is to try and EQ a sine wave. all you'll do is make some notes quieter than others, but that's a whole another matter)

    At this point, before you start spending millions, i have to say that I am no professional. I have only owed 1 pair of studio monitors and have never owed high quality headphones. Nothing I say is the truth, they are only opinions I've formed through the years. I have however been involved in the club scene and done some live PA work, mixing live and in the studio, bands and electronic, so I hope that counts for something.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2010
  11. motion audio

    motion audio Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,150
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Northampton
    ^^^ Some solid advice there. Definately steer clear of subs, theyre usualy more hassle than their worth unless you spend a lot of time and money on your room, and you'll have the same problem again with getting the bass so sit at the right level in your mix. Its worth looking around for some second hand monitors (as long as they've been looked after), you see a lot about from people/studios upgrading when new models come out, you can end up getting much more for your money than buying new.

    Bit of acoustic treatment can help a lot, and you can get a perfectly usable sound without spending loads. Have a look on the sound on sound site for some "Studio SOS" articles, they'll give you a good idea of the basics of controlling early reflections and dealing with low-end problems with improvised bass traps etc.

    Few links:
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr09/articles/studiosos_0409.htm
    http://http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar08/articles/studiosos_0308.htm
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jan07/articles/studiosos_0107.htm