Rhythm, Groove and Basslines

Discussion in 'Production' started by Kaz1983, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    ( And Classical Goldie which is posted further down the page. )


    I wrote this with the idea of taking a fresh look at things, a different take - this case that being basslines. I'm so you know I'm not saying this is the only way of looking at things or the best, hell I'm still am finding basslines to be my achilles heal. I just feel that you can get so caught up in sound design aka "making a dirty reese" that forget about the basics and more importantly the importance of the them - ohh and I relise that differs from person to person but do feel I have a point and if you already think you know how to create a bassline in 5 minutes maybe this thread isn't for you...

    Rhythm is a very difficult thing to talk about abstractly: it's something you have to experience and feel before you'll be able to play it. The best solution is to put on your headphones and listen to music. Hear the bassist and drummer, and hear the rhythm they're playing.

    That is from an article named the role of the bassline, after reading it got me think about basslines differently but more importantly the structure behind them. The article is more aimed at bass players within bands but it was still a good read. The information shared in that article is great, especially if you not quite a noob but are struggling to put together good quality basslines.

    Anyway here is the article was talking about and the thread I started yesterday on DOA.

    http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/less...esson_part_2_-_the_role_of_the_bass_line.html

    http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?threadid=673882&cache=26

    See I quite often play too many notes trying to change things up when I get into trouble, I also haven't read up on chord progression and the importance of the root note. I'm starting to think when it comes to basslines you must be able to play it on the piano or some other non electronic instrument, with it still sounding good - at least not a mess, for it to be a quality bassline. Also that sticking to the root note if you're having trouble is a very good idea and a handy thing to know. You have to know the rules before you break them I suppose.

    Chord progression.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_progression
    http://www.hotfrets.com/songanator.asp
    Root Note.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_(chord)

    Anyway here is a mini list on how go about structuring your basslines.

    1. Play the root note of the chord being played on a given beat. This is the strongest, most emphatic note you can play.
    2. Play a note on the beat, but not the root note of the chord. This is still emphatic but not so much so as the root note.
    3. Don't play a new note on the beat, but carry over the note you were playing on the previous beat. This de-emphasizes the beat, because the bass isn't adding a new sound on it.
    4. Rest: play no note at all. This is the most de-emphasizing thing you can do on a beat.

    The most important part of writing a bass line is deciding which beats to emphasize and which beats not to emphasize. In particular, deciding where to use rests to de-emphasize a beat is essential to constructing good, solid, supporting bass lines.

    Here are some other ideas to think about.

    A. What I like to do is have the root at a pitch where you can go a couple of notes below it without the bass becoming too deep.
    B. Don't rely on pure production.
    C. The chord structure and key of a tune basically determines which frequencies are available in any given part which is ultimately the blue print to the tune itself.

    So having read all that info and I've had some spared time I decided to look at a few tracks to see how their basslines are structured. I'll post them below the OP.

    ---------- Post added at 17:33 ---------- Previous post was at 17:27 ----------

    BASEMENT TRACK - High Contrast

    [​IMG]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiG07PK_9So

    GANJA MAN - Aphrodite

    [​IMG]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cez5fQYT2Bk

    RUFFEST GUNARK - Tom Cat

    [​IMG]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgQyhaN2u1A

    SUPER SHARP SHOOTER - DJ Zinc

    [​IMG]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qbkR5aDFMTs

    3000 MILES - Original Sin (the red bars being the wobbles)

    [​IMG]
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNberjAwZqg
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  2. Riisu

    Riisu Not the Preacher Man

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    Messages:
    7,307
    Likes Received:
    226
    Location:
    Hornchurch
    Interesting post, thanks :)
    Will have to check the images later as I can't view them in work.
     
  3. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,556
    Likes Received:
    2,520
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    yeah that was pretty cool :thumbsup:
     
  4. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Cheers.

    I had basslines running as loop in FL, so I may have made mistakes as I wasn't working with fresh ears.

    Ohh and they aren't really notes as such but represent frequency changes how ever it managed to be done.
     
  5. Thin and crispy

    Thin and crispy Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2009
    Messages:
    4,075
    Likes Received:
    19
    Location:
    Doncaster, United Kingdom
    Cheers dude :D its hard coming up with something inspiring sometimes! :)

    Call me a nub but i cant understand his tabs at all, lol...
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  6. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
  7. kama

    kama benkama.net

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    2,768
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Halfway between the gutter and stars
    Very true. Most people forget that the bass is a rhythmic instrument.
     
  8. Innovine

    Innovine Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2008
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    27
    Location:
    sweden
    really interesting with the pictures of the basslines, thanks for that!!
     
  9. padders

    padders Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2008
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    8
    really good read, will be trying out some of those ideas. Get a catchy bassline is surely the one of the most important things in drum and bass so itsreally great to hear a different angle on the musical side of things rather than the wealth of techie threads about bass eg split into 3 frequnecy channels/ dstort, fx's resample etc.
    Would really appricate if you could do one more of these:

    Surely one of the most catch b-lines in drum and bass history: The Druids
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NQNDyo76ZM
     
  10. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0


    ---------- Post added at 12:33 ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 ----------

    Cracking bassline, the structure of it is pretty simple though.

    So you know the vocal comes in just after the 3rd bar.

    [​IMG][/url][/IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  11. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ohh and on side note I thought this was quite interesting...



    The show was based around the Drum and Bass musician Goldie learning how to create a piece of classical music. Goldie was a competitor on the BBC television conducting series Maestro. At the beginning Goldie does not know how to read or play classical music. During the show Goldie spent from January to the summer of 2009 studying classical music and developing his piece.

    In the end Goldie performs his piece "Sine Tempore", conducted by Charles Hazlewood, with the BBC Concert Orchestra at the Royal Albert Hall in the 2009 Proms season. On the performance, Elisa Bray said in The Independent that "Goldie has proven himself again."

    BBC Classic Goldie Part 1 of 2-

    Classic.Goldie.part1.
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EI940QSU
    Classic.Goldie.part2.
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P9FA13K4
    Classic.Goldie.part3.
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MZ0GDU9X
    Classic.Goldie.part4.
    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V6RMVXFY

    Thats part 1, I'm goning to try and find part 2.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2015
  12. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,556
    Likes Received:
    2,520
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    shit you cant be serious, he performs sine tempus with the bbc concert orchestra?? thats so awesome i lost my eye sight
     
  13. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re Sine Tempus -that would have been great, nah this is about Goldie composing a full on classical piece for music for the 2009 Proms season. If you love music I highly recommend it, Goldie talks about his life growing up, the way he feels he is seen by the majority and what drum and bass is to him. The first part was really interesting, my favorite bit in part 1 -haven't seen part 2 yet, was ......

    ...... in an especially crushing scene towards the end of Classic Goldie’s first episode, Goldie was practically forced by conductor Ivor Setterfield (his chaperone, who seemed to muscle in at every step of the creative process) to harmonise his melody, a task that was clearly very frustrating for Goldie and, one could argue, quite unnecessary. Why should harmonisation be an unquestionable compositional must for an orchestral main melody? Though the matter wasn’t ultimately resolved onscreen, Goldie did seem to give in, but we can be grateful that he didn’t finish out the show brainwashed, his spirits broken and a glazed look in his eyes, answering Setterfield’s sinister questions on the Rules of Harmony with exactly what the Party member had demanded to hear, while the orchestra rehearsed for Classic Goldie’s soulless Bach chorale pastiche in the background. I for one would have been right behind the drum and bass producer if he’d reacted with ‘who are you to say this has to be harmonised? D’you know who I am?’. Instead, he got agitated and threatened to ‘kick the piano in’. Actually an enraged Goldie violently and noisily destroying a concert grand out of frustration on stage at the Proms could have been a far more radical and meaningful gesture than the attractive and deserving but fairly predictable Mahler-Holst-Gorecki puppet tone-poem that was eventually performed (if unduly critical and defeatist perhaps, putting the nippers off ever approaching classical music were it seen as a gesture of finality).
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2010
  14. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    10,556
    Likes Received:
    2,520
    Location:
    www.easternpromiseaudio.com
    haha youre on par dude. nice writing. goldie is the coolest so im defitetely going to watch this later.
     
  15. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2010
    Messages:
    114
    Likes Received:
    0
    No worries dude, I'm happy someone is watching it -hope you enjoy it.

    Ohh and found part two, it took me a few hours of typing in 'classic goldie part 2' 'bbc goldie classic part 2' 'part 2 goldie classic'

    But yeah I found it.. :D

    http://d01.megashares.com/?d01=78c154b

    (if you have watched part 1 you'd know why I'm stoked)