"Reverse Sidechaining"

ApeCat

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#1
hai guise what daw is da bezt my mates sez is reason and reapar but i don't have a mac book pro and im pretty sure you need pone

In all seriousness though; I'm looking to cut the subs from my kicks when my sub kicks in, if you follow.

I'm not going to make two separate kicks and juggle them, it's going to take fucking ages, and I don't want to duck the subs when my kicks kick in because that's not the sound I'm going for, my sub is just a clean sine going "bwoooooo-BWOOOOO-bwoo-bwoo-bwoo" because that's the general direction in which I roll.

Still rocking FL Studio like a chieftain.
 

lostnthesound

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#2
Notch cut the sub bass with the dominant kick frequency. This will allow the kick and sub to have their own space. You can also high cut your sub so that there is no crossover with the kick.

Cheers.
 

ApeCat

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#3
I don't think you understood my question..

I'm trying to cut the subs from my kicks, when the sub bass is rolling, not cut the sub to make room for the kick, I don't want the usual pumping sidechained sound, but I can't just cut the low freqs from my kick or it sounds shite without the sub bass rolling underneath.

There's no high end to cut from my sub since it's a single sine wave that only plays around in the 50 to maybe 100 range.
 

d-low

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#4
so you want low frequencies to disappear from your kick drum when the sub bass is playing and then for them to reappear when the sub isnt playing? but you dont want 2 different versions of your kick ? and do you not want to automate an equalizer? im actually annoyed by this thread a little. lol.

---------- Post added at 18:11 ---------- Previous post was at 18:03 ----------

what are you hoping for seriously? what is the question? there are no question marks, your literally stating impossible things. like i want a snare thats a kick but its a hi hat aswell. no compute.
 

ApeCat

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#5
so you want low frequencies to disappear from your kick drum when the sub bass is playing and then for them to reappear when the sub isnt playing?
Spot on!

but you dont want 2 different versions of your kick ?
Correctomundo!

Mr.SmartyPants said:
and do you not want to automate an equalizer?
When did I ever say anything to that extent?

im actually annoyed by this thread a little.
You and me both..

Whatever, man.
 

parsons19

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#6
I'm no production pro but I don't think what you want is possible man?

The thing I would do is have 2 channels for the kick. Then have separate EQ settings on both. One with Sub one without! Then its a simple case of having the kick on the right channel at the right times :)

You don't want that though! But there is my input.
 

miszt

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#7
a sidechain hi-pass filter? which has a Frequency control on the side-chain input?

tbh i would just cut the sub off the kick, and layer in a sub kick when needed, much less hassle, and more controlable than sidechaining, kick attack/decays are very sensitive
 

d-low

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#9
Spot on!



Correctomundo!



When did I ever say anything to that extent?



You and me both..



Whatever, man.
sorry i was a douche man, your thread just really spun me out

---------- Post added at 19:03 ---------- Previous post was at 19:03 ----------

a sidechain hi-pass filter? which has a Frequency control on the side-chain input?

tbh i would just cut the sub off the kick, and layer in a sub kick when needed, much less hassle, and more controlable than sidechaining, kick attack/decays are very sensitive
he doesnt want 2 kicks :p
 
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#10
I THINK you might be able to do it with gross beat other than that you might have to automate the eq on the kick and since you're on FL you can just do it for one kick then copy and paste it over the whole track
 

lostnthesound

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#11
I don't think you understood my question..

I'm trying to cut the subs from my kicks, when the sub bass is rolling, not cut the sub to make room for the kick, I don't want the usual pumping sidechained sound, but I can't just cut the low freqs from my kick or it sounds shite without the sub bass rolling underneath.

There's no high end to cut from my sub since it's a single sine wave that only plays around in the 50 to maybe 100 range.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aside from sidechaining or automation, I find that adding a narrow EQ boost to the dominant frequency of the sub kick (between 90-100 Hz) cuts through the mix nicely. If you apply a freq spectrum tool to a track like Fred V. + Grafix "Decades," you'll find that their tight sub kick has been tightly boosted around 100Hz, giving the track nice punch while allowing the sub bass to shine though.

I'm well aware of the frequency capacity/character of a sine wave.

Even though a sine wave plays around 50 to 100 (or lower depending upon the key), there are still artifacts that exist within the mid-high range of frequency spectrum that can cause a "clicking" sound with your sub that cannot always be removed with ASDR (that is, assuming you're using a default sine wave from a digital source such as the EXS24).

To add, I suggested hi cutting your sub because you don't want it interfering with your kick and/or sub kick. By high cutting a sub to around 80 Hz, you are not only allow room for your low end elements, you're allowing additional headroom for your sub kick.

For the cleanest sounding pure sub stemmed from a sine, best practice is to cut the hi end with a steep Q. This will not only free headroom and eliminate the "click" noise, but will prevent the sub and kick from conflicting. To add, the steep Q will add a bit of character to the sub.

Cheers.
 
Last edited:

Mr Fletch

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#12
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Aside from sidechaining or automation, I find that adding a narrow EQ boost to the dominant frequency of the sub kick (between 90-100 Hz) cuts through the mix nicely. If you apply a freq spectrum tool to a track like Fred V. + Grafix "Decades," you'll find that their tight sub kick has been tightly boosted around 100Hz, giving the track nice punch while allowing the sub bass to shine though.

I'm well aware of the frequency capacity/character of a sine wave.

Even though a sine wave plays around 50 to 100 (or lower depending upon the key), there are still artifacts that exist within the mid-high range of frequency spectrum that can cause a "clicking" sound with your sub that cannot always be removed with ASDR (that is, assuming you're using a default sine wave from a digital source such as the EXS24).

To add, I suggested hi cutting your sub because you don't want it interfering with your kick and/or sub kick. By high cutting a sub to around 80 Hz, you are not only allow room for your low end elements, you're allowing additional headroom for your sub kick.

For the cleanest sounding pure sub stemmed from a sine, best practice is to cut the hi end with a steep Q. This will not only free headroom and eliminate the "click" noise, but will prevent the sub and kick from conflicting. To add, the steep Q will add a bit of character to the sub.

Cheers.
There's no other way for me to say this without it coming across extremely homosexual......but I'm gonna say it anyway....

@ lostnthesound - Although you havnt been a member of this community for very long, I find almost all of your posts to be valuable resources of information for people just starting out, and also to some of us more seasoned guys too. You refuse to get involved in the ridiculous tomfoolery that overtakes some of us at random intervals, and you are always on point with the subjects being discussed.

You sir, are a valuable member of the dnbforum family, and I hope you stick around for a very long time.....this place needs more people like you!


/gayness
 

parsons19

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#13
Oh yeah, I always hipass my subs as lostnthesound suggested. I use a basic sine sub often!

Just try it out, you will hear that eliminating the higher frequencies eliminates a lot of the clicks and noises lostnthesound talks about :)
 

T:M

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#14
There's no other way for me to say this without it coming across extremely homosexual......but I'm gonna say it anyway....

@ lostnthesound - Although you havnt been a member of this community for very long, I find almost all of your posts to be valuable resources of information for people just starting out, and also to some of us more seasoned guys too. You refuse to get involved in the ridiculous tomfoolery that overtakes some of us at random intervals, and you are always on point with the subjects being discussed.

You sir, are a valuable member of the dnbforum family, and I hope you stick around for a very long time.....this place needs more people like you!


/gayness
Here-Here (y)
 

ApeCat

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#15
I leave for two hours and my whole thread derails into a circlejerk turned cock sucking contest..









:teeth:

Nah!! Spread the good vibrations!

Okay, so what I want to do is ultimately impossible? I've been meaning to get more into compression and limiters and shit, now I just use compressors for sidechaining [just tried out sidechaining my snare to my break in my latest chune to great effect, before all I did was duck the bass to make room for the kick..] and this - in my head - sounds like something that could be acchieved by way of a multiband compressor [on the kicks] and linking it to a [muted] peak controller or something on the sub so that when the sub is on, the peak controller recognizes it, tells the treshold level on the [kick drum] compressor to duck and I'm horribly not up to date on the lingo here.. I'll have a chat with the sound guy on the play I'm working on tomorrow, maybe he's got some ideas he's like a total sound geek.

Anyways, cheers for all your input, even the douchebag sounding bits!

PS: I usually do a high cut on my subs with the built in EQ in the FL Studio mixer, even though I don't believe in it, sometimes I imagine I can hear a difference, sometimes I just think I'm just imagining hearing a difference.. I really hope you don't highpass your subs, Parsons, I really honestly do! :teeth:

@Lostinsoundwhatnot: No need to apologize, geez! But on the topic of that frequency boost; how much would you go for? I hear [thrugh tuts, vids, whathaveyou] people usually don't boost anything by more than one or two dB, I try to cut away more than I add anything when it comes to EQ, even though my tracks are all crap I'm really cautious of additive EQ because I think the mixdown is probably the most interesting aspect of putting together a tune at all.

@misztsztszstz [sorry, I'm just a lickle bit drunk..] Could you please be a little bit more specific? I understand I need to highpass my kicks, and I have to set up some kind of sidechain process linking it to the sub, but I'm really not that experienced with this kind of shit and kind of need the spoon fed terminology version kind'a thing...

Where was I? Oh yeah, big cheers all around!

<3
 

elmaruk

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#16
EQ with a sidechain input is what ya want.

EQ Is a static process & Sidechaining is dynamic so you'll need a dynamic EQ.

Try - Sonalksis DQ1

and I'm sure there is others.
 

lostnthesound

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#18
There's no other way for me to say this without it coming across extremely homosexual......but I'm gonna say it anyway....

@ lostnthesound - Although you havnt been a member of this community for very long, I find almost all of your posts to be valuable resources of information for people just starting out, and also to some of us more seasoned guys too. You refuse to get involved in the ridiculous tomfoolery that overtakes some of us at random intervals, and you are always on point with the subjects being discussed.

You sir, are a valuable member of the dnbforum family, and I hope you stick around for a very long time.....this place needs more people like you!


/gayness
@Mr. Fletch: Wow, thank you kindly Mr. Fletch. I sincerely and honestly appreciate the praise and can promise you I'll be around til I'm blind and deaf.

@T:M Thanks m8!

---------- Post added at 16:29 ---------- Previous post was at 16:25 ----------

@Lostinsoundwhatnot: No need to apologize, geez! But on the topic of that frequency boost; how much would you go for? I hear [thrugh tuts, vids, whathaveyou] people usually don't boost anything by more than one or two dB, I try to cut away more than I add anything when it comes to EQ, even though my tracks are all crap I'm really cautious of additive EQ because I think the mixdown is probably the most interesting aspect of putting together a tune at all.


<3
It depends really. I find between 2-3 dB does the job nicely. Then it's all about experimenting with the Q to see how tight you want that boost to be. Too much will cause some unwanted "singing" resonance, and not enough will end up with no effect.

I use to be really against additive EQ as well, but I've found when used sparingly it can help certain components of the track slice through the mix rather nicely.

Cheers.
 

ApeCat

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#19
Oi! Let's keep our eyes on the ball here, yeah? How much of a boost are we talking about? As I mentioned, additive EQ always makes me cringe..
 
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