Multi Genre Punchy drop and having the kick punch through the mix

Discussion in 'Production' started by ashtrodude, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. ashtrodude

    ashtrodude Producer of Music

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    hey guys,

    Just wondering I've been producing for a while now and i still cannot seem to get a punchy drop:(. i make a buildup and it gets crazy sometimes and when the beat drops it does not have any oomph! this is really frustrating lol. also my kick does not come through how i would like it to... i have tried so many things; compressors, mastering plugins, EQ'ing, etc. if you folks have any suggestions they would be greatly appreciated! and this could help others that are having the same problem too!:finger2:
     
  2. Prideinyouride

    Prideinyouride Member

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    I have found that on a few occasions the kick gets masked by the lower end of snares and/or drums in a break which will muddy and dull the kick. So detractive EQing of other tracks will have a beneficial effect on your kick. Compressors are key however they're not just a "loudness" plug in. I'm only just getting my head round em. Also have you layered a couple of kicks together to get a nice full sound (remember by doing this you'll take up more headroom).
     
  3. lostnthesound

    lostnthesound Burns Easily in the Sun

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    A couple of things you can do to add some "punch" to your drop.

    1. If you have any low end during your buildup (i.e. kick and/or bass) automate a hi pass filter so that the low end starts to slowly come back in as the build progresses. Keep it's maximum low end at about 150 Hz. Then, disengage the automation when the beat drops bring back the full impact. This plays a "trick" on the ears as we hear a sudden lack of low end to a brutal hit at the drop, making it "louder" to our ears. You can do the same with the hi frequencies as well by using some creative lowpass automation.

    2. Check your frequencies and make sure your bass isn't conflicting with your kick and vice versa. If they are, sidechain the kick/bass or cut frequencies respective to the sound (ex. notch cut the dominant bass frequency from the kick, notch cut the dominant kick frequency from the bass). 9 times out of 10 a kick isn't coming through a mix because it's clashing with another sound. Do the same with the snare, as sometimes the kick (typically between 180Hz - 225Hz) can mud up our snare and vice versa. Again, cut the dominant frequency of the snare from the kick.
    If all else fails, try a different kick/snare etc.

    3. Don't use mastering plugins until its time to master. Using them when editing/mixing causes more harm than good and can often introduce latency. Stick to your typical compressors, limiters, etc.

    4. Submix those drums to a bus so they're more unified and sound like a whole kit as opposed to bits and pieces of sounds.

    Cheers.
     
  4. Mr Fletch

    Mr Fletch aka KRONIX

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    I was gonna type an informative post, but lostnthesound pretty much nailed it!
     
  5. Shock/Tactics

    Shock/Tactics Get the fuck up

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    What kicks do you use? I got a "punchy" and a "trancy" kick pack and they cut through the bass with little audio processing. They are in the "Vengeance Essential Club Sounds 1". Play around with different kicks to see if that helps. Just a suggestion :)
     
  6. Eternaloptimist

    Eternaloptimist Active Member

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    Vengeance + 1 also I'm hearing super good things about fxpansions new treomor
    Check your sample start(zoom right in)
    New york compression
    Try some transient designers(Spl)
     
  7. dieiscast

    dieiscast Member

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    somethimes you also can put a explosion and / or a crash beneth the first kick. it depends on the build-up. but if you have a raiser a explosion sound is a good possibility. but pay attention (as mentioned before) to the frequencies...
     
  8. Attire

    Attire Last Winter

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    Good point, but, why would this even happen in the first place?

    The kick and the snare shouldn't be playing at the same time anyway, and any tails from either one should have been trimmed to fit the tempo... or am I missing something :|
     
  9. sam the dnb man

    sam the dnb man Variation

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    There is no rule, some drummers play kicks to accent some of their snares.

    It just means you need to do some judicious EQing or dynamics processing.

    I tend to have a few layers to my snares:

    Low end

    Snap

    Hi end

    Acoustic snare

    or whatever....

    I send them into a bus which is then send into a drum mix bus.

    But yeah whenever a kick is playing and you want a snare over the top of the kick just mute the low end snare.

    Be wary though when you use compression on your kick and snare bus as you may have to adjust the attack times as they might clang when played simultaneously.
     
  10. June Miller

    June Miller Member

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    I think the first place to start is with your sample :)

    The importance of picking a good sounding sample is really underated. This may take a while as its literally looking for a needle in a haystack, but it will pay off.

    Once you have your wicked sounding kick and lightly processed it to your needs, you can follow a few workflows to get it siting in the mix (or even out of the mix, if thats what your looking for)

    First off, try and understand why your kick sounds so good? Does it have a nice punchy mid range, a really full low end etc..... try and pin point that on the frequency spectrum. You can also run fairly wide EQ peak by +5-10db across the frequency spectrum while the whole mix is playing, listen to what you like and where you think its going to punch through.

    After you have done a bit of research on your kick and you understand why it sounds good on its own and not in the mix you can really home in on making it work in your mix.

    I would suggest, before processing the f**k out of it, to run your other drum elements through a multiband sidechain. A few plugins have this option (Izotope Alloy / Vengeance Philta XL). Now from what you have learnt about your kick previously should give you the knowledge and understanding on where and what frequencies. This could be anywhere from 50htz-1k but again, have a play, there is not set rule for that unfortunatly :)

    This will leave room for your kick to burst through your mix and do its job.

    Now its time for a bit more processing which a few people have already touched on. Transient Shapers are great on kicks (Izotope Alloy / Ozone) are great for these, some compression will do wonders, although bear it mind that frequencies in the lower range will react differently to frequencies in the mid and high range, so muitiband compression will help you out here.

    There are lots of different things you could do, but I would be here all day :) PM or mail me if you need any clarity on anything :)
     
    Jwood27 likes this.
  11. elmaruk

    elmaruk slannndaaaaaaar

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    Top advice.

    Are you thee June Miller?

    If so, big up, love what you guys are doing at critical and It's cool to see a pro round here giving some tips :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2012
  12. June Miller

    June Miller Member

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    anytime man :) thanks for the nice words!
    Mark
     
  13. Dom!Reavers!

    Dom!Reavers! Member

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    Big ups guys!

    Another tip, roll the high end off your kick and layer a nice hat sample over the top, making sure to cut any low end off, having the high end element to the kick can really help bring it out of the mix i've found..
     
  14. D Double U

    D Double U FQ Sessions

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    Some nice advice there! Will have a greater though about elements with those points in mind! Many thanks!