nice plugins for phatting kick drums?

logikz

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#2
free:
digitalfishphones dominion
Tal-Tube or Voxengo Boogex

not free:
wavearts tube saturator
SPL transient designer

coupled with (free)
Voxengo MSED
Audiodamage Rough Rider

but most of all layering. to me, layering kicks is the easiest way to achieve the sound i want.
 

ARTFX

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#4
Vintagewarmer helps me a lot when phattening sounds.
Also the Schaack Transient Shaper is good for getting a more snappy kick and snare, or to add some more volume to the 'tail' of your drum hits.
 

richie_stix

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#6
free:
digitalfishphones dominion
Tal-Tube or Voxengo Boogex

not free:
wavearts tube saturator
SPL transient designer

coupled with (free)
Voxengo MSED
Audiodamage Rough Rider

but most of all layering. to me, layering kicks is the easiest way to achieve the sound i want.
i've heard a lot of big names specify to not layer kicks, as i can create unwanted phasing?

but as far as i am concerned, the only plugins you need are compressor and eq :D
 

richie_stix

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#8
^^^ never had that "phasing" problem lol. like NEVER. if its not hearable, its not there.
thats why i put a question mark after... not entirely sure myself, just heard it from these wankers... tbf im not sure phasing was the correct term.


these wankers mention it abit in here... and i'm sure sub does in his too?

---------- Post added at 17:12 ---------- Previous post was at 17:11 ----------

@ 6:35 minutes (y)

my point being that simple and clean works best for me
 
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groelle

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#9
yeah. ok. dunno really.. never experienced that tbh. and if i layer, i cut off the low freqs off the second kick anyways..
 

elmaruk

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#10
I used to layer my kicks but that when I had no samples that i liked as they were.
After a bit of searching around and finding some kicks and snares i liked that sound of as they came it was just a case of trying out some plug-ins that brought out the punch a little more.

I've been using camel toe for a while but startin to feel it gives a too processed kinda sound, i dunno maybe just me. Trying to find somthing a little more...raw.

---------- Post added at 18:39 ---------- Previous post was at 18:31 ----------

Izodope Alloy is pretty nice for the trasient designer and exciter too, as stated by icicle

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:39 ----------

I've also found lately tuning kicks helps, and once i have a track starting to take shape the bass tend to help bring the kick out, spesh if you tune kicks and do a 90hz cut

---------- Post added at 18:41 ---------- Previous post was at 18:41 ----------

I've also found lately tuning kicks helps, and once i have a track starting to take shape the bass tend to help bring the kick out, spesh if you tune kicks and do a 90hz cut
 
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#11
i've heard a lot of big names specify to not layer kicks, as i can create unwanted phasing?
I'm pretty sure you can only get phasing when layering the exact same sound (which is a very bad idea for that exact reason :D). If you use totally different sounds then you shouldn't get any phasing. I always layer 3 kicks with no problems (I do tend to have one kick high passed at 60hz, and the other two high passed at 80hz, just so the 60hz one can thump in its own space). I can see that using one kick might give you a more defined sound if that kick is really good, but I really like the sound I'm getting right now :).

Edit: I notice that my phasing point may have been raised already... so sorry for the repeat :D
 

ARTFX

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#12
Yeah, you will get phasing problems in the low frequencies, making things sound muddy.
That's why we cut of the low end of our kick layers, so only the main kick has a real low thumb.
 

Neomind

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#13
I'm pretty sure you can only get phasing when layering the exact same sound (which is a very bad idea for that exact reason :D). If you use totally different sounds then you shouldn't get any phasing. I always layer 3 kicks with no problems (I do tend to have one kick high passed at 60hz, and the other two high passed at 80hz, just so the 60hz one can thump in its own space). I can see that using one kick might give you a more defined sound if that kick is really good, but I really like the sound I'm getting right now :).

Edit: I notice that my phasing point may have been raised already... so sorry for the repeat :D
it depends on what kind of kicks you use...
I like to use very subby kicks, so 2 kicks are almost always giving me phase problems...

Thought the key to a real punchy kick drum is to get the right sample... sounds obvious but that's the way it is. Cutting up different freqs from different kicks and adding a BIT of saturation/distortion -> compresion, would make the job too SOMETIMES when you want a certain kick.

Eq to me, is the only thing to get the kicks I want...

this feedback is not general, since each style of music genre has its own techniques...
 
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#14
I've generally not noticed any issues with most of my tracks. However, now you mention it I probably did get some phasing when I changed one of the main drum layers in my last track, but my current setup produces nice results IMO. I also only try to use one subby kick and the rest are more for texture.

However I am open to trying new things with drums. Would cutting any additional kicks at 80hz eliminate the phasing or would I need to go higher, like 100hz (which is where I cut almost everything else to let the bass come through).
 

logikz

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#15
if you layer the exact same sound, invert the other copy and you wont get phasing. but you its pretty pointless unless youve edited it anyway, like just kept the attack and eq'd out the bass in which case it shouldnt phase. but if it does, invert.

when layering the layers would have different qualities, one is snappy, one is deep, one is reverby and crunchy, etc.
most of the time i will have made these kick layers myself with my gear and plugs and shit.

you can EQ all you want but you cant change the character of a sound lets say from synthetic to acoustic just with EQ.
your source sample would have to just right to begin with if youre only gonna eq it and be done with it.
it sounds like a complicated process but its fun and pretty easy when you got a good idea of what you want and
a good selection of sounds to mess around with.
 

TongueFlap

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#16
if you layer the exact same sound, invert the other copy and you wont get phasing. but you its pretty pointless unless youve edited it anyway, like just kept the attack and eq'd out the bass in which case it shouldnt phase. but if it does, invert.

when layering the layers would have different qualities, one is snappy, one is deep, one is reverby and crunchy, etc.
most of the time i will have made these kick layers myself with my gear and plugs and shit.

you can EQ all you want but you cant change the character of a sound lets say from synthetic to acoustic just with EQ.
your source sample would have to just right to begin with if youre only gonna eq it and be done with it.
it sounds like a complicated process but its fun and pretty easy when you got a good idea of what you want and
a good selection of sounds to mess around with.
Normally you would only do this if your are recording using stereo mics. Like recording snares etc. But sinse were on about dnb i doubt anyone is recording their own drums :D But yee
 
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#17
I'm happy with the sounds I've got and I know it would be pretty silly trying to change the character of a sound just with EQ. I was just saying if I separate the freq's like I do would I avoid phasing? I actually know about phasing when it comes to live recording, and TBH I've never really experienced any issues with phasing on my drums, apart from maybe the last track I mentioned, but that was with an experimental method I don't usually do.

Thanks for the pointers though :)
 
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#19
Yeah, phase cancellation :D Although both sounds would have to be identical for that to happen... either way I'm sure it would produce some strange artefacts.

On this subject you can use this method to separate vocals if you have the original track and an instrumental version. I've not tried this yet, so I think I should at some point (I've got the instrumental version to Combichrist's Blut Royal, plus the original... although I'm not sure if many peeps here have even heard of that :D).
 

logikz

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#20
yeah ive heard of that method but i just dont believe in it. people been talking about it for a long time though so there must be something to it. anyway i had phasing issues when i first started layering, you see i like to make all layers out of the same kick. id solve it by pitching it differently which would sound ok but not be at all what was supposed to happen. nowadays i dont have the phasing issue when layering but im more pragmatic these days, its just what sounds good that matters in the end, i dont have to have originated evey single soundwave. being bendy in your technique is key to making good sounds i feel.

as for total silence when layering a sound, id always edit the sound for the layer (make a copy with killer transient and no tail for instance) so there would be no risk of phase cancellation. only phasing. which you can solve once by inverting, but not twice. cos then you face phasing either way you try. its taken a long time getting to were i am today with making music cos i been really misdirected, so caught up in all the forum talk that i was way off track. alls i know these days is that the discussion about the making of music with the brands and vsts and synths and boxes and whatnot is strickly philosophical. you cant tell someone how to make a good sound any more than you can tell someone how to write a beautiful paragraph. but you can discuss it to death and as long as you think it will all make sense in the end and there is a mixdown button and a noisia reaktor ensemble where neuro comes from you will be confused and waste a lot of time.
 
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