KRK rokit 5 or Behringer B1031A monitors with weird specs???

Discussion in 'Production' started by ilovelondon, Jan 8, 2011.

  1. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    http://www.krksys.com/product_rokit.php
    http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/B1031A.aspx

    Basicly the same thing when viewing the specs, apart from the behringer specs that are a bit to high to be true imo. The watts aren't probably RMS but lets consider them equal?

    Anyway, i'll be using these to mix, and probably to mix the audio for school assignments too (i'm a filmstudent), so if i'm using it for school i need a flat frequency curve. And neither one of the two have a curve displayed on their website. Urgh. They just say they have 'an incredibly flat curve'. Double urgh.

    I'm a bit on a tight budget though, that's why i'm looking at the rp5 grade monitor...

    Has anyone done an audiomix on the behringers yet? I'm quite reticent when it comes to the brand, they have made a lot of shit products to date, and you really never know if a new product should be considered absolute shit or proper product...

    The thing that worries me the most is that on the back of the monitor, there are multiple switches and knobs, to adjust the EQ to compensate the akoustic errors of the placement or the entire room. This frightens me a bit, because i've always known that you should never ever adjust the akoustic errors of a room by changing the EQ of the monitors, because that makes an ever greater cliff between what you think the mix will sound like and what the real non coloured sound of it is.

    Can't be that the engineers behind behringer don't know this right? So i'm thinking it's a monitor made to sound good in the first place, not correct. I mean what's with all the 'incredible flat curves' if they make you tamper with your EQ beyond belief?


    I'll probably get the KRK's, unless you guys think i'm completely wrong in all this...
     
  2. druu

    druu Member

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    Eq's are on nearly any decent monitor and are used for ine tuning the sound to your room. It's supposed to be tweaked in conjunction with measurements you've taken of your rooms response. I went all out with my studio, took measurements and after looking at a few of my response curves, found I had to lower my ribbon tweeters level to flatten it out. I have a 2.1 setup so was a bit of a headache to tweak my sub as well.

    With the monitors, I've heard both the rokits and the 2031A's (not 1031A's) and personally I would go for the behringers. Yes, Behringer have that dodgy reputation but you can't beat the value bs performance. The 2031A's actually received good reviews when they first came out. I know a few local artists still monitoring on them as reference to higher end monitors too.
     
  3. msmith222

    msmith222 redbeard

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    i heard enough good about krk that i bought some. i think they are fantastic (and flat, but i have no curve to show you), though i have the 8s so i can only speak for krk as a brand. and i've also only had them for about a week. so take what you will.
     
  4. dar kist

    dar kist KYRO

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    krk's all the way bro
     
  5. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    So what did you do to adjust then? Pink noise generator to find where the acoustics are off? Strange thing though, as i said in the original post, i'm a filmstudent, i have 2 hours recording techniques a week. This guy is a professional sound mixer, he's the owner of Hype studios in belgium, and in his lesson he has said multiple times to not, never ever do this, because it's not a correct technique... Reason is, the acoustic problem with a room is situated in the reverberation times, which can't be solved by adjusting the EQ. You need to place some absorbers, bass traps, ... to adjust the acoustics of the room.

    Your sound will sound absolutely correct though. In your room, with your speakers, with the EQ set like when you're mixing it...
    I thought about your technique you use too, but my lector has said this is so wrong, but lots and lots of people make the mistake.
    I'm sorry dude, but i rather believe the owner of Hype studios than anyone else :D


    Cheers for the product review though, useful!
     
  6. druu

    druu Member

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    I used a sine wave sweep, 20hz to 20khz @ 10sec duration. It's all in the program I used for the measurement. My mic was setup at listening level and I VNC'd into my mac from my ipad so i could take the measurement without me in the room for an accurate measurement. After looking at the graph, i adjusted my monitoring system to try and flatten it out, making tiny adjustments each time. I have home made bass traps in each corner that I could fill and auralex foam on the side walls for early reflection points, etc. The room is quite dead and I managed to get a decent sound from it.

    With regards to the EQ thing and Hype Studios; I have a home/hobby studio. I have a limited budget. I have consumer low end gear. In other words, I make do with what I have. :) And seeing as you're choosing between two low end reference monitors, I'd highly suggest you do the same. :) Not taking a dig mate, I'm sure Hype Studios are most probably correct to an extent but if they don't have a budget to build a commercial studio, then they'd be throwing cash at it to make it perfect, I know I would.

    There's so many factors to consider when treating your room and EQ, etc. But my advice, if you're buying monitors that have the EQ'ing option on them (probably about 90% of the monitor market i'm assuming) and it's for home use, use it.

    Oh, and if you're going to be producing d&b, take my advice and go the 8" woofer. You'll regret it big time going the 5" and will spend a shitload of time (wasting time) testing your tracks on other systems for bass, etc. I bought Samson R5a's a few years ago and now I run a matching sub, just so I could mix low end.
     
  7. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    Okay, thanks for the tips, good to know about the bass...

    About the EQ'ing though, my lector wasn't talking in a high end/professional point of view. And that's easy, because if we talk about high end and professional point of view, the room simply doesn't have acoustic errors, because it's built to perfection :D

    Nah man, i think you're seriously wrong with this. It doesn't have anything to do with having low budget monitors or not, it's about adjusting your room instead of the EQ...
    I'll try to explain: if the room you're working in has shitty acoustics, and to correct it with the measurements you've made it has a distortion in low frequencies (just giving a random example). So you turn the low frequency knob/fader up a bit, until you're measurements say that the sound in your room has got a flat curve. Alright. Then you start to mix until everything in your tune/mix/whatever kind of product you're producing sounds perfect. But the adjustments and the finetuning you've done in your mix isn't what you hear in your room, because you've changed it with the EQ! If you would play your tune out in an entirely different room (for example the movie theatre where i have to show my movies to the jury) where the acoustics are different and the room is adjusted/built to sound perfect, you're mix will sound shit, no matter how good and perfect it sounded in your booth.

    It's wrong to think that changing the EQ evens out the acoustic errors in the room, so that with your adjustments, you would have a correct sound...
    So it's not a matter of how much money you're throwing against it, it's a matter of not using the EQ. If you're acoustics aren't right, you're mix won't be accurate. That sucks (a bit). But if you correct it with the EQ, it'll be even further off from what it should be to be accurate.


    Saying the same thing lots of times in the same post, but i hope by saying it in different ways you understand it... :)
     
  8. druu

    druu Member

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    I fully understand acoustics mate, no need to explain, I've done my research, have you? Or are you purely basing your facts from your lecturer alone? :)

    You can think what you like mate, I don't think I'm wrong though. I don't think your lecturer is wrong either. It's all a matter of opinion and whatever approach you want to take to succeed in the main goal which is having your mix translate onto other systems. My setup does this well enough, so I'm happy.

    The main method for home studio tuning is compensation. This is why nearly every monitoring system has eq correction on them. If say I've made a mixdown on my system, brought it to another place to test, find out my treble is too high, I'll go back, adjust the treble adjustment on my monitors, redo the mix, go to that test place and it'll sound good second time around. Why? Because I've compensated using the EQ on my monitoring setup. I could test the mix anywhere else and it'll sound fine too. It's a no brainer really (or maybe I'm just saying that because i'm old and wise)..

    You have a lot to learn mate, don't go basing your opinions on the one source, read, read, read. Read reference monitor product manuals, find out the view of a professional manufacturer. Check proper acoustic forums to ask questions, etc.

    I don't think that at all. But i've trialed and tested my adjustments onto other systems to make it sound 'correct'. My studio probably has the shittest sound in the whole world for all I know or care. But my adjustments have allowed my (again) MIXES TO TRANSLATE TO OTHER SYSTEMS WELL. I think that's the point your missing mate..

    BTW, when it comes to EQ'ing I would never use a room correction EQ (one that works on phase inversion). The ONLY adjustment I've made on my monitoring system was the ribbon tweeter 'level'. I think phase inversion room correction EQ's are definitely a no-no.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  9. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    alright then. I'll dig a little into this in the future then, i wanna know the full theoretical truth behind all this. And you're completely right with the 'if my mixes translate to another system' thing, but that wasn't what we were discussing, we were going on about pure acoustic theory.

    And please don't start with the 'old and wise' shit. If you know anything more than me that has nothing to do with age. Age and experience are related, but not the same. I really hate people when people think they're better than someone else because they're younger. I know shit about producing music (i don't do it neither), but there are guys in here that can do amazing things for what they've only got to work with.

    I know you're going to say that you don't think you're better because you're older, but you mentioned the old and wise thing, and everyone sees the arrogance in that.
    I'll even quote it, as a sign of how irritating i find this.

    You've got good arguements, gave me a good lead about what monitors to pick, and seem to know quite enough about producing, but that was a shitty remark right there mate.
     
  10. druu

    druu Member

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    Actually, we were discussing which monitors you should buy. :)

    Lol, sorry mate, i was being sarcastic with that remark since as i was coming across as a know-it-all. :) Dont take it seriously! I'll use a '(!)' next time.. :)

    All that aside, you wanted to know which monitors to pick. My suggestion, go into a store that has both, bring in your favourite CD and sit there for a good hour or so listening to the ones within your budget. Forget the room factors, etc because it's a hurdle you'll have to face later on once you're ready to setup your own room. It seems you want to go the proper way about it, so don't forget to budget for room treatment. I went the DIY bass trap route, I suggest you do the same as it's the most effective way to treat a room.

    Here's some reading;

    http://mixonline.com/gear/buyersguides/close-personal-reference-monitors/ <-- this will explain the reasoning behind 'eq' controls on current monitors..
    http://gikacoustics.com/education.html <-- straight to the point info on rooms and acoustic treatment from a highly regarded bass trap manufacturer
    http://www.basstraps.net/DIY-BASS-TRAPS-MADE-EASY.pdf <-- diy bass traps, quick and effective

    See how you go mate, again, don't take my comment personally, i was only fuckin' about..

    ---------- Post added at 09:28 ---------- Previous post was at 09:21 ----------

    More links..


    Better Bass Traps
    http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

    DIY Bass Traps
    http://www.radford.edu/~shelm/acoustics/bass-traps.htmli

    DIY Bass Traps, video tutorial
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyYUpkpL0gw

    Acoustic Treatment
    http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

    Acoustics Primer
    http://www.gikacoustics.com/faq.htm

    Absorption Coefficients
    http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Coefficient Chart.htm

    Exposing Acoustical Myths
    http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/exposing-acoustical-myths

    Area Effect for Spaced Sound Absorbers
    http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/area-effect-for-spaced-sound-absorbers

    SPL/Weighting/Noise Levels
    http://midimagic.sgc-hosting.com/spldose.htm

    Ethan Winer: Acoustics Forum
    http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/cfrm

    Master Handbook of Acoustics, af F. Alton Everest
    http://www.amazon.com/Master-Handbo...bs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216935021&sr=8-1

    Speaker Placement
    Placing Loudspeakers
    http://www.genelec.com/learning-center/technology-tutorials/placingloudspeakers/

    Monitor Placement
    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/mar02/articles/monitors.asp

    Subwoofer Setup
    http://www.sonicdesign.se/subplace.html

    Floorplanner
    http://www.floorplanner.com/

    Google SketchUp
    http://sketchup.google.com/

    Online Audio Calculations
    http://www.sengpielaudio.com/Calculations03.htm

    Panels etc.
    GIK Acoustics
    http://www.gikacoustics.com/

    Primacoustic
    http://www.primacoustic.com/

    RealTraps
    http://www.realtraps.com/

    Valhalla Technology
    http://www.valhalla-technology.dk/
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
    ilovelondon likes this.
  11. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    now we're back on how this thread should be like. Cheers mate, quality post!
     
  12. Innovine

    Innovine Active Member

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    I am never again buying Behringer. Every single piece of Behringer gear in my studio has some kind of fault, be it a dodgy input jack, a scratchy fader, or just plain dead. My Behringer truth 2031a lasted about 1.5 years and then just died. My behringer xenyx 1832fx mixer died after 2 years. The pedals are worthless crap. Both of my eurolive floor monitors have dodgy inputs. The only thing thats still working is a behringer virtualizer fx box, and that is probably because its so crap I haven't turned it on in years.

    On the other hand, my yamaha dtxplorer drumkit is in perfect condition. My korg electribe EMX and ESX are working perfectly. My Roland TD-12 drumkit is in mint condition. My emu xl7 command station has one slightly dodgy button after 10 years. My hercules rmx is working fine. My acces virus kB is perfect. My Peavy floor monitor works perfectly. 6 boss guitar fx pedals are all in perfect condition.

    Decide for yourself. I thought Behringer was a good idea at first, a cheap way to get started building a studio. Bang for the buck and all that. But I think I should have saved a bit more, and invested in better gear from the start.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  13. ilovelondon

    ilovelondon Call me Jens.

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    well, that's the name behringer has: shit quality.

    Have one of their mixers too though, the ddm4000. Hope it'll last. If it dies, it's on to allen&heath...
    Think i'm gonna go with the krk's then. I've seen muzza mixes with the 5's, so i'll be asking him about them.