How to make minimal sound big???

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#1
Yeah.....how do you guys do it?

I've got a lovely little riff that I'm using (nice minimal chimey reverby droplety bells) and built up a nice glitchy beat out of beeps white noise snares n kicks n ting for the first half, got the drums 90% right for the second half of the verse (?, 32 bars after the drop) but am stuck on making the melody change without taking everything out n leaving it as just drums or adding too much and detracting from the whole vibe of the intro/breakdown/first 32 bars. I've tried the old rearrange the notes and use long notes instead of the booms(ish) I've got for the bass in the first half but it still sounds weak. I don't wanna rinse the intro noises again (koto/strings/flute combo) as they are the second breakdown and it just sounds a bit dull to me if there's no change. Been working on it since fri and keep going in circles but never making progress. Any tricks that you guys use? If you wanna hear it PM me and ill send you a sexy lil exported version of the project so far.

Cheers x
 

d-low

I know you got soul
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#2
slap some reverb on.

if you arent sure about structure get listening to some of the artists you aspire to and see how they structure
 

T:M

Dusty Techno Workout
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#3
Delay & Reverb are your friends.

Also something I've not tried myself, but I've heard to add some more interest you can record silence in your room and then compress the fuck out of it, to add ambience or something.
 

ThePapa

Suffragette City..
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#5
Delay & Reverb are your friends.

Also something I've not tried myself, but I've heard to add some more interest you can record silence in your room and then compress the fuck out of it, to add ambience or something.
Lol! I think someone was yanking your chain...
 

T:M

Dusty Techno Workout
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#6
Lol! I think someone was yanking your chain...
Actually, I really do think its legit. If you think about it no room in your home is truely silent, there's always cpu fans whirring, vents and floorboards expanding/contracting due to AC or Heating, and countless other things going on we don't pay attention to normally. All this could provide subtle ambience that our ears could pick up but not necessarily recognize as a sound. The compression would just flatten the ambience out some and with some gaining boost slightly to make it a little more apparent.

I will try to find the source where I read it if it helps any :)

EDIT: Forgot to add that if anyone try this I would really like to hear the results. I would do it myself but my house is always pretty loud, aaaanndd I don't really have a mic other the one built on to my MacBook, which seems to pick up the fan more than anything.
 
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#7
Iv recorded an acoustic guitar outside on a very calm quiet day, sounds much better than recording in an untreated room and it added some sort of ambience to the sound i cant really put my finger on. Maybe very slight breeze and sounds of nature. If you dont live near any busy roads or noisy shit id recommend that before recording your room. Your going to need a half decent condenser mic though, dynamic mic wont be sensitive enough. But you will need more than just that to fatten up your sound abit.
Try really ambient pad or samples with some delay and reverb on them to add some space to then so it sits back in the mix. Will soak up some silence thats probably making it feel empty. Maybe use some of intro noises abit more conservatively, occasional droplety bell hits or something. Minimal works well if you add alot of depth to it. Maybe some percussion or occasional percussive knocks and stuff with plenty of reverb and delay to give it that spacey echo feel.
 

marcelkennard

Storms comin in Annie
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#8
Yeah.....how do you guys do it?

I've got a lovely little riff that I'm using (nice minimal chimey reverby droplety bells) and built up a nice glitchy beat out of beeps white noise snares n kicks n ting for the first half, got the drums 90% right for the second half of the verse (?, 32 bars after the drop) but am stuck on making the melody change without taking everything out n leaving it as just drums or adding too much and detracting from the whole vibe of the intro/breakdown/first 32 bars. I've tried the old rearrange the notes and use long notes instead of the booms(ish) I've got for the bass in the first half but it still sounds weak. I don't wanna rinse the intro noises again (koto/strings/flute combo) as they are the second breakdown and it just sounds a bit dull to me if there's no change. Been working on it since fri and keep going in circles but never making progress. Any tricks that you guys use? If you wanna hear it PM me and ill send you a sexy lil exported version of the project so far.

Cheers x
I'd try and create 1 or 2 new sounds that you think will fit with your track to add to the mix.
Look at the overall mix in a frequency analyser and see where you're lacking most content and tailor make the sounds to slot in nicely, also try sidechaining them to the drums just so they fill up the quieter parts of the track.
And yes, maybe you are lacking a decent drone for the tracks ambience? If you can't record your own theres tons of drones online if you look around for samples, then just process them to sit really far back and wide in the mix
 

Alert

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#9
IMO:

- kick = mono
- snare = mono
- hi hat = stereo
- sub bass = mono
- lead synth = stereo
- bass synth = mono
- fx/sounds = stereo

Kick (punch) = Low cut at 80 hz
Muted Kick (thump) = Low cut at 50 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
(layer the two kicks, make sure that they are the same root key as the rest of the song)

Snare = Low cut at 120 hz
Hi Hat = Low cut at 1000 hz, slight bump at 10000 hz
Sub Bass = Low cut at 30 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
Lead synth = Low cut at 150 hz
Bass Synth = Low cut at 90 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
FX/Sounds = Low cut at 300 hz

:gslayer:
 
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#11
Cheers guys! Some wicked ideas that have been bubbling away in my head whilst at work today. Gonna go in on it again tonight see what I get.

In cubase 5 how do you find out what freqs various tracks are? I know how to play with the little 4 dot thing to take a bit of bass out or take some high end off a noise but not sure exactly what freqs the sounds are as I have 4 diff numbers being displayed. Is it all in the little e at the top of the channel track or is there another tool for looking at it? I think keeping my sounds clean will let me build more into the mix without it sounding all muffled and a bit shit. Been told by ba mate to use a spectrum analyser? I'm gonna go find a tutorial on it but wondered if there were any anyone knows and uses?
 

T:M

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#12
Cheers guys! Some wicked ideas that have been bubbling away in my head whilst at work today. Gonna go in on it again tonight see what I get.

In cubase 5 how do you find out what freqs various tracks are? I know how to play with the little 4 dot thing to take a bit of bass out or take some high end off a noise but not sure exactly what freqs the sounds are as I have 4 diff numbers being displayed. Is it all in the little e at the top of the channel track or is there another tool for looking at it? I think keeping my sounds clean will let me build more into the mix without it sounding all muffled and a bit shit. Been told by ba mate to use a spectrum analyser? I'm gonna go find a tutorial on it but wondered if there were any anyone knows and uses?
Voxengo SPAN is all you need.
 

groelle

Well-Known Member
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#13
try reversing the melody you got there. not just the notes but the sound... BIGness for minimal business, i tell ya.

---------- Post added at 22:42 ---------- Previous post was at 22:38 ----------

IMO:

- kick = mono
- snare = mono
- hi hat = stereo
- sub bass = mono
- lead synth = stereo
- bass synth = mono
- fx/sounds = stereo

Kick (punch) = Low cut at 80 hz
Muted Kick (thump) = Low cut at 50 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
(layer the two kicks, make sure that they are the same root key as the rest of the song)

Snare = Low cut at 120 hz
Hi Hat = Low cut at 1000 hz, slight bump at 10000 hz
Sub Bass = Low cut at 30 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
Lead synth = Low cut at 150 hz
Bass Synth = Low cut at 90 hz, Hi cut at 500 hz
FX/Sounds = Low cut at 300 hz

:gslayer:
also theres nothing worse than strict rules..

why lowpassing the bass? if you use a sine that gets as useless as hipassing. hi hats stereo? what if your main breaks mono? hipassing a kick at 80hz? for minimal? really? id rather sidechain to the bass...

etc etc. as a rough guide thats ok, but i wouldnt let my basssound be entirely mono apart from subbassregions either..

and dont forget to watch your high end aswell, nothing worse that having instruments lack clarity because everythings being hipassed but not bothered with anymore then after, resulting in a clash of hollowsounding, unpleasant noises.
 

KODIN.

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#14
try SpectraLAB - FFT Spectral Analysis System and you`ll see it all by eyes.
phace, noisia and some other top producers use it.

here is print screen of SpectraLAB v4.32 running on my pc

pic1.jpg pic2.jpg

on second print screen you can see how u know exact frequency and amplitude of specific sounds as you move your mouse over analyzer

hope this helps it help me ;)
 
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