How to get a fat sound?

Discussion in 'Production' started by ChestOr, May 30, 2010.

  1. ChestOr

    ChestOr Member

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    Well, somehow I don't know how to explain it...
    I'm working with Ableton Live Suite 8, after a few months of producing DnB i got a little better with my Mixing and Masteringskills, but i never get that Sound, which I want to have...it's always kind of thin, not as powerful as would like to have it.
    Like, when theres a break and I want to build up, some Atmosphere after that, it always ends up "too dry" (too tight) imo, putting Hall and Compression on some Patterns, always seems to mess up the Frequencies.
    As I listen to some of those Member mixes, i question myself, whats the secret behind that sound (of course if it's a good mix).

    I use to put in some more Patterns into my songs, until it sounds full...but that isn't the solution I think (and doing this, I just have to work more on EQing etc.).
    There are some Tunes to which I listen, that just consist of Drums, Bass and some Lead, but Sound Fat as hell. There is something in those songs, which creates the illusion of "FATNESS" and I just don't know what it is...listen to that as an example:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXarE6fhwkI
    and now compare it to my songs..fully loaded with trash and sounds, but not even close to get that rich sound...http://www.myspace.com/minorubeats
    So whats the secret? Any Tips? Links? Anything?
     
  2. Muta

    Muta Hologram

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  3. ChestOr

    ChestOr Member

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    thx, i already know those Videoseries..but somehow, they are not helping me too much^^
    I really don't know, but i think it's a Compression thing...At least many of those tunes always sound to me, as if things are compressed heavily, but not too much, so that the sound doesn't become too "washy".
     
  4. Muta

    Muta Hologram

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    hah, then Im afraid I cant help you too much.

    tho, when it comes to your basses, are you splitting freqs?

    at first I had the same problem as you alot too.
    But splitting freqs up and add a seperate sub to the bass, it helped making it fatter by much hah.
     
  5. ChestOr

    ChestOr Member

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    you mean like...Sub Bass putting on a LP Filter at... don't know 200Hz, another instrument that represents the Bass, cutted at 200Hz etc.? I'll always do that^^
     
  6. subprime

    subprime Dysjoint

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    Always? If you mean high passing your bass at 200 then I imagine that would rob you of a bit of 'fatness'.

    I know what you mean tho. You hear that sound and you feel like you should be able to get there but.......hopefully with practise and time?

    It must just be a combination of everything being done well I guess. Pre-production work on patches and samples, good eq-ing, mixing and mastering.
     
  7. Muta

    Muta Hologram

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    hmm, nah, just meant splittin your reese,

    LP ; 150Hz, something like that
    BP; 250 to 650 or something (?)
    HP: 1Khz +

    and IF needed, put a seperate Sub behind it,

    Also, what Subprime said ;3
     
  8. dexter

    dexter Member

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    unfortunately its really just good EQ, compression, mix down and more importantly experience, theres no set method to achieve the fatness everyone desires, just make loads and loads of music, learn from and evolve things that sound good to you, and keep at it.
     
  9. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    First try making your tune sound "phat" without using any compression or eq. Just make it happen by just arranging things and selecting sounds that dont need any post processing. When you've achieved something you're happy about this way, you can start worrying about making your own sounds "phat".

    People hung up too much on "compressing this" and "eq'ing that", when it's in fact not rocket engineering, but simply creativity.

    ---------- Post added at 22:30 ---------- Previous post was at 22:29 ----------

    Bass splitting/mangling is a different thing, but even that has more to do with creativity and trying out new stuff than finding the "right" settings.
     
  10. glennyb

    glennyb Member

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    utilize distortion and saturation before you start thinking about compression. camelphat is a very nice place to start.
     
  11. bite and gouge

    bite and gouge Lee Fury & JtB

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    I think the main problem here is summing. Only using ableton to mix your tracks down, you will always struggle to get said 'sound'. When using a any software, it has to be converted to digital signal along the way. To do this the computer has to effectively has to plot the sound on a grid (bit/rate), fine when only using one channel... but picture what happens when you sum two. The line begins to thin out and the clarity is lost. A cheap solution would be to invest in a small analogue desk and a multi-channel out soundcard, pipe as much as you can individually through the desk and let that do the summing. Straight away you will notice a difference. Analogue doesn't suffer with summing problems the same way the digital domain, just be careful buying the right desk e.g. anything that converts to digital avoid!

    I use pro tools for this reason, out of all the software available... pro tools sums best, end of. Thats why its industry standard. I rewire both ableton and reason down to pro tools and the difference alone is amazing. For work-flow, I build my tracks like this until somewhere near done and then look to mix it down using my TL Audio Tubetracker desk but you could always take it too another studio to mix down before taking the plunge to buy the analogue desk plus you can learn what their engineer does by watching over his shoulder.

    Simple things you could try, double tracks in your sequencer to dynamically improve the depth. This always works well for drums and really helps put power into a mix.

    You could also try, rather than applying compression to a channel, line up a heavily compressed track along side the same channel running dry and mix the two as desired. This always helps for me as you have control over the dry sound, keeping the feel with the body of the compressor and doubling at the same time.

    Hope that made sense and was of some help? Its late and my head hurts...
     
  12. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    It most certainly will not. If you use all software, the signal will not be converted at any point, except when going out to the speakers. It will be digital signal from the start.

    But you do have a good point tho I disagree with pro tools 'sounding better', but let's no go down that way as it will lead nowhere. I've gotten an old sampler and sometimes do my subs or basses or some stabs or fx hits with that - basically anything that doesnt need to be heavily processed, so I've basically got 2 busses to sum - the one from the sampler and one from the computer (my interface only has 2 outs), and already that gives my mixes much more space. You can sort of run things much hotter without getting that horrible digital distortion in there. My mixer is complete shit from mid 80's, has a noise floor like crazy, but in this way it works a charm. Gonna be expanding my outputs in the near future just to get the mixing further away from the digital world.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2010
  13. richie_stix

    richie_stix gomby plz

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    damn, always on the money!
     
  14. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    me too, im getting a delta 1010LT, ten ins, ten outs. going to rock balls.
     
  15. bite and gouge

    bite and gouge Lee Fury & JtB

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    Ok, didn't phrase myself too great there but I meant in context of summing. The sounds already being digital by definition proves my point, they have already been converted or created in a digital domain. Therefore they have already been mapped and a reason why software equivalents of synths never sound as good as the real thing. The thin sound is caused by multiple sounds being plotted on the same grid, whereas analogue just passes the signals through as they are, as you say Kama, you can drive your analogue desk to distortion and it sounds good, though not the same with digital. With conversion, if you run your sound through a plug-in it has usually been converted, which I guess will be the case. I don't by all means confess to being some sort of expert but thin sound is a problem we've had to address.

    With the Pro Tools thing, each to their own. I believe with PT you get what you put in. We met a college lecturer who blew my mind with how much you can do, you just need to know how. We had the benefit of his time in our studio which has been so influential, apart from having to change 90% of the kit in our studio after, most of the time was spent discussing thin sound.

    You also touch on another subject by mentioning using a hardware sampler and how much space this gives you. This I believe to be because you are using 2 different AD converters to play back your sound. Even with a multi channel sound card, you can still have thin issues. Hardware has a different quality to each device, instantly separating it from the next. A reason why we still own our Mpc 2000, S5000 and EMU6400 Ultra samplers. You can buy hardware so cheap on ebay these days its unreal. Digital brings great work-flow, Analogue brings awesome sound... the key is the balance.
     
  16. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    ...wooooorrrrrd man.
     
  17. RevTech

    RevTech Butthole=output transduce

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    my mate trevor, he's got a torrented plugin, 12 tracks for 12 dollars...
     
  18. dnbkingz

    dnbkingz bollocks

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    Feed it more cake.