How can a sub sound completely like shit?

Discussion in 'Production' started by Saftstein, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. Saftstein

    Saftstein Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Austria
    Whats up,

    So i'm currently working ona tune. I usually work on my adams A3X and as they don't provide much sub frequencies i always check my tunes on other speakers with a sub woofer.
    This time while listening to the tune the sub sounded absolutely fucked up on the sub woofer. It's just a raw solid sine sub straight out of massive. I thought it maybe doesn't fit with the rest of the tune but it also sounded like shit in solo. So what could be wrong with this sub? How can i fix it? How can i bring my sub well into my mixdown?

    Cheers
     
  2. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    885
    Location:
    BH1
    out of key?

    Side chain your sub to a ghosted Kick & Snare track.
     
  3. Know One

    Know One Living A Lie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    That Big Country Everyone Hates
    Is your wavetable position nob on massive set all the way to the left to generate a pure sine wave? And it's just one oscillator to right?

    :: sent from android with tapatalk ::
     
  4. xiris

    xiris Constantly Learning

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2014
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    79
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Make sure you don't have an effect on your sub & that its going out to the right bus n not getting hit with some random effect along the path?
     
  5. Saftstein

    Saftstein Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2014
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    164
    Location:
    Austria
    I'm a 100% sure it's in key, but i will try to sidechain it, thanks!

    Yup, it's completely on the left side, it's a pure sine wave! And yup, just a single oscillator.

    Hmmm, no, i only have an EQ on it, with a low pass filter and a high pass filter that cuts the lowest frequencies (around 20kHz if i remember correctly)
     
  6. Know One

    Know One Living A Lie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    That Big Country Everyone Hates
    Since it sounds fucked up also in solo, a clip might help people determine the issue.

    Is massive still running the sub? Or did you bounce it down and then run it through a samler?
     
  7. TinnitusD&B

    TinnitusD&B Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    You can't go that wrong with a sine wave in massive so something is activated that you don't want to be.

    Check your voicing and any of your Unisono Spread parameters as well as your routing settings.

    If you can't be bothered with that then note down all the parameters you've set on your sub i.e. envelope attack time and any modulation you've added then delete it all and start again with a fresh canvas.
     
  8. -agu-

    -agu- Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    What eq you're using? If it's not linear phase eq, remove it. Also there's not much point in having a lowpass filter on a pure sine sub, unless Massive is one of these synths have that "click" on the sub, no matter what you do with ADSR settings.
     
  9. Know One

    Know One Living A Lie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    That Big Country Everyone Hates
    I hate that click.... I run into that myself. What the hell is that click anyway?

    :: sent from android with tapatalk ::
     
  10. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    885
    Location:
    BH1
    too much attack on the envelope
     
  11. Know One

    Know One Living A Lie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    That Big Country Everyone Hates
    Yea, that was my first thought as well. But some synths can have a really short attack and not get the click, others seem to click a lot more with a pure sine wave. So much that once you adjust the attack to the point of not clicking, the initial punch of the sub is all but lost.

    :: sent from android with tapatalk ::
     
  12. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    6,260
    Likes Received:
    885
    Location:
    BH1
    just add a quick pitch envelope to overcome that loss of punch. 1 octave usually does it

    - - - Updated - - -
    [MENTION=99608]Know One[/MENTION]
     
  13. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, AUS
    The wave being triggered at a phase other than 0. It can only really be heard with sinewaves.
     
  14. -agu-

    -agu- Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    Makes me wonder are there just errors on some synths because for example, I get that click with ES2 on Logic which doesn't even have an option to mess with the phase at least to my knowing.
     
  15. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, AUS
    OSC start, top right, choose hard or soft
     
  16. Wildfunk

    Wildfunk New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2014
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    What happens when you remove the LP? I've got the same problem with a weak sub and the EQ was blamable for it. The LP was just too close on the sub/sine.
     
  17. -agu-

    -agu- Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2014
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    15
    Location:
    Helsinki, Finland
    Damn, I didn't notice that, thanks man! I'm still pretty new to Logic (moved from Reason).
     
  18. Know One

    Know One Living A Lie

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    36
    Location:
    That Big Country Everyone Hates
    Were this in massive? I know there's a section to trigger the LFO from the same spot everytime, but not sure about the phase. I more of a button pusher and nob twister (that's what he said, lol) than someone with mass knowledge on routing and inner works of a synth. But I'm working on it.... I know a lot more than I did when I started.
     
  19. miszt

    miszt BASSFACE Royale

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,946
    Likes Received:
    360
    Location:
    London
    how sure are you that its not the room causing the sub to sound bad? standing waves are a common problem with small studios, they can boost/kill a sub completely, if you don't have a treated room, check on headphones to make sure its balanced, and use the spectral analyser to make sure you have a nice gentle curve, and no spikes/dips in the sub...that's the best you can do without room treatment



    no it happens with all synths, it depends on the length of the note and the phase start position, usually the phase will start at Zero, which is fine, as long as the note is the right length so that it is back at Zero when the note starts again, otherwise you get an instant drop from whatever position its at, back to Zero, causing a click - the best way to deal with this is to ensure the envelope is set correctly, make sure that the note goes back to Zero at the end (make the Decay or Release short), and starts at Zero when it starts (usually does by default - check the Oscillator Retrigger settings, set to note) - this problem often comes up when people don't leave gaps between their notes, and don't have the Decay set short enough to bring it back to Zero before the next note plays

    - - - Updated - - -

    Envelope is what you are looking for, ADSR, make sure the Relase is short

    - - - Updated - - -

    edit - Release should not necessarly be short, depends on the sound you are going for, you need to find the balance between the envelope shape you want for your sound, and making sure its clean, tweeking the Attack, Decay and Release until you find the sweet spot for the sound you want
     
    Know One and Saftstein like this.
  20. Mania

    Mania i fukin wot m8

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,524
    Likes Received:
    412
    Location:
    Melbourne, Victoria, AUS
    Restart Osc button in the first tab (under env 1)