elitism in dnb

Discussion in 'Drum & Bass' started by Cosmo, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. Cosmo

    Cosmo Last of the Meheecans

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    I've seen a lot of people ridiculed for their taste in drum and bass, not just here but particularly online and on youtube videos as well.
    Now there's loads of people who don't listen to drum and bass at all; some listen to jazz, others hip hop or metal, so usually it's just accepted that some people will want to listen to one kind of music or another.
    Most sensible people don't mock ska musicians or whatever for their taste in music, because its simply pointless to try to criticise people for having an opinion of what music is good and what is bad. Ridiculing someone for liking jazz is like ridiculing someone for liking marmite or anchovies.

    So why within drum and bass should the same not apply? If people want to listen to Pendulum or Clipz I don't see what the problem is if they enjoy the music.
    Indeed, I've seen many examples where someone's first introduction to dnb is Pendulum, and surely if this introduces people to the scene it can only be a good thing? There's definitely no harm in enjoying a piece of music, that's what it was made for. Just because someone wants to listen to jump up but not dark/neuro, does that make them somehow lesser to those who do the opposite? Not at all. And if they've not heard a drum and bass tune from before 2000, does that make them not 'leet' & 'hardcore' enough to enjoy and discuss the music? It shouldn't

    I've seen this kind of egotism before, and I vividly remember how prevalent it was in the metal scene (and undoubtedly still is), particularly in the 'underground' black metal circles. In these cultures, people even go to great lengths to make their music obscure, hard to find and sometimes atonal, just to keep it 'grim' and elite. Any group that is too 'soft' or not evil or dark enough is simply dismissed. Music that slightly deviates from the format is classed as pussy emo music. It's pathetic and makes me sick with general distaste for the human race. I'm sorry but that's how I feel, because arrogance and elitism and two things that I find unforgivable. One could even consider the similarities between this kind of elitism and civil rights issues of the past decade.

    Drum and bass is getting bigger and bigger all the time, especially here in the UK where it has already touched the mainstream and gets regular plays on radio one. There is no better way to kill what is such a diverse and exciting genre than by strangling it and forcing it to be this or that, forcing it to fit to a certain criteria. One of the reasons drum and bass has developed so well is because it hasn't been afraid to take influences from other genres.

    rant over
     
  2. Thin and crispy

    Thin and crispy Active Member

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    brought a tear to my eye.
     
  3. Rezin

    Rezin Freeze Motherfucker

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    You get elitism in every genre of music. You cant stop people from wanting to ridicule others for their musical tastes.
     
  4. safety

    safety double safety

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    number 1, pendulum slagged us all off and make ghey rock and bass

    number 2, i hate anyone who doesn't like the same things as me

    number 3, so should you

    number 4, i have imppeccable taste, therefore if you don't lke what i like, you're wrong

    number 5, some dnb is just so formulaic that i hate to call it music

    number 6, again, some dnb is just so formulaic that i hate to call it music

    number 7, pendulum invented drum and bass in the same way god invented the earth, but like god they've turned their back on their holy creation because it became to big and powerful for them

    number 8, arrogance and elitism are two things i think i'm entitled as someone who's listened to the music for over a decade

    number 9, sometimes, just sometimes i wonder what people are trying to achieve by asking these kinds of questions

    and finally number 10, if it doesn't have a cowbell in it, then it ain't drum and bass
     
  5. safety

    safety double safety

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    this is fact* dustek has included it in the wiki article
     
  6. Blurr

    Blurr Wasted Selection

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    there was a thread on this a cpl of weeks ago


    use the search button...
     
  7. Datt Male

    Datt Male Active Member

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  8. Tera

    Tera Member

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    Woooah, since 1998, step back everyone!
    What the fuck were you listening to for the other 10 years that the scene was evolving!?
    And you're 30, so you don't even have the same excuse that alot of the younger lot do.
     
  9. flobbydobby

    flobbydobby bangin garden of dobbylon

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    I think you made a good post and I can see your points are good but sometimes I think there's a danger of being too open minded, i.e....
    to me, that is like saying if someone who's never voted before decides to join the BNP then it can only be a good thing, because at least it introduces them to politics...okay I'm being slightly tongue in cheek there but the principle is basically the same. it's natural to instinctively despise something which is fraudulent and claims to be something its not, because it undermines the integrity of what it claims to represent. you won't find a drum'n'bass fan hating on ska(to use your example), because ska does not claim to be drum'n'bass, so it's not an issue...

    having said all that, 90% of d'n'b I listen to now would probably be classed as wobble, so what do I know...:D
     
  10. safety

    safety double safety

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    i think you missed the point. i was being tongue in cheek* your reaction is the exact reason i don't take threads like this seriously
     
  11. Cosmo

    Cosmo Last of the Meheecans

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    I get what you're saying - I can see that happening irl when people who don't listen to drum and bass think that Pendulum is the be-all end-all when it comes to dnb whereas we know that it is hardly representative of drum and bass as a whole.

    If you join the BNP with no previous political experience then you're only being introduced to once side of politics. Same here, if you listen to Pendulum with no previous experience of dnb then you are only touching upon one part of the genre and not experiencing the genre as a whole. But I don't think its possible for people to hear that same bloody synth in every song and not want something different. I think the best thing to do is just to show them something different; people don't tend to respond negatively to 'proper' dnb. If people like what they hear then they will seek out more. On the other hand, if the first drum and bass tunes I had heard were Pendulum, I would probably have been put off and thought nothing more of it.

    @Tera & safety
    I actually thought safety's post was quite humourous and subtle; usually its easy to tell whether someone is being serious or sarcastic etc, especially when compared to their other posts.
    There is one thing I don't understand tho which is number 9.

    What I'm basically trying to convey is the idea that it would be nice if we all just chillout :spliff: and not show so much negativity to each other when there doesn't seem much reason for it.
     
  12. Tera

    Tera Member

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    But tongue in cheek or not, there are tons of posts like this around with exactly these senitments.
    The thing i have found now is that the same kids that were into Pendulum only a year ago are now the ones slagging them off as they think that's what they have to do to look 'real' or 'underground', the same now is happening with Chase & Status. They read bullshit on the internet and then take it as gospel.
    It's just a long line of names that are rolled out time after time as the latest scape goats.

    Elitism does exist in almost all forms of music but as someone who is heavily involved in various music scenes, drum & bass is certaintly where it seems to be most rife.
    It's a shame as it has been my life for over 20 years now and if i were a young kid trying to get into drum & bass, i would take one look at the forums (and in no way do i just mean this one) and the amount of bullshit spouted by people that although they are entitled to their opinion don't really hold all the facts to make such an opiniated judgement on a genre of music that has existed for longer than they have lived, and log off and go and join a band or something.

    For example, im heavily involved with the Reggae / Dancehall scene as a DJ and collector of it's music and have been for over 20 years now. Now when an artist or producer crosses over to the mainstream or charts in Europe or the States or whatever, they are congratulated or halied as a success rather than having accusations of 'selling out' flung at them by the exact same audience that were buying and playing their music just months before. The people are happy when their music is spreading to different parts of the world, they realise that it's essential for a music scene to have a world wide audience behind it to survive.
    They also realise that it is possible to have both an underground career, while having a track in the charts at the same time and I can think of quite a few drum & bass artists that could do the same...
     
  13. safety

    safety double safety

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    ok, i get where you're coming from. but for me it's not the selling out that's an issue. i have issues with the producers who don't challenge themselves and move forward as artists. i've said this a thousand times on here, but just producing jump up tune after jump up tune is not creative, and it forces all your music to lose value as you struggle to find original ideas. just writing a new bassline and using different fx gets dull.

    i don't just want to single out jump up, because there are a few producers in the scene who i think either need to broaden either their influence or output
     
  14. Mattix

    Mattix Sub Focus anyone?

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    One time a guy came up to me and said "thats not right" and i said "excuse me sir i think you'll find it is" and they he said "oh sorry, i was looking at it head on but after turning my head slightly to the left i can see that it is indeed right".

    The point being that one beat we can all dance to is a HEART BEAT. Yeah, thats it, take it down.
     
  15. dquinn09

    dquinn09 Member

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    Pendulum invented drum? Wow...

    I wouldn't say it is elitism, people not liking one type or the other. The simple fact is that although we all have different views on what makes a genre good, the beauty of drum and bass is that it pulls on people from all walks of life, and people who previously adored all sorts of music. You have so many sub-genres of drum and bass that under the braod umbrella of drum and bass there is bound to be conflict.

    Truth is a lot of drum and bass out there is actually shit... it really is. Dance music is funny, because there doesn't always need to be that much musicality in a tune to make it successful. If someone likes a tune then fair enough, and I typically respect it, but I also try and open their ears to other facets of the genre. I wouldn't call it elitism as much as a re-education.

    You say that pendulum brought people into the scene (which is bollocks, all it brought was more chavs, jump-up junkies, and 10 year olds) but if it brought them in, it is our job to open their ears to more that the genre has to offer.
     
  16. mistasfx

    mistasfx MISTA SFX

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    think dnb is bad??? u wanna check out the elitism in hardcore.... omg
     
  17. RocksteadyUK

    RocksteadyUK SkimoBeats

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    It's all bollocks.... Grow up a little, accept other peoples views and move on.

    /end thread
     
  18. savoirfaire

    savoirfaire 16

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    Whyyyyy? Whats so good about happy hardcore and scooter etc?

    jokes:D i know little about hardcore, only tune i've heard i really love was We Are Ie
     
  19. Cosmo

    Cosmo Last of the Meheecans

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    @Mattix - what was he talking about? Was it a piece of artwork or what?

    I suppose elitism does come with all genres to some extent, particularly genres that are more 'underground'. I think it's fair enough for someone to dislike a producer or artist but that doesn't mean that someone else who likes that producer must automatically be inferior or have 'inferior' views.

    I agree with you dquinn09, and your attitude doesn't seem to be one of elitism from what you've said... The best thing is definitely to educate rather than criticise.
    When someone says "My favourite dnb tune is X by Pendulum/anythingelse" sometimes the response they get is awful. "Stfu noob pendlebum r wank" might be one response. A better one would be "Have you heard Y by 'soandso'? If you like this you would love that" or whatever.
     
  20. Lunos

    Lunos Active Member

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    what rocks said