DnB scene politics

Discussion in 'Drum & Bass' started by 1992, Nov 3, 2002.

  1. 1992

    1992 Novantadue

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    (this post was originally in reply to the Nitrus remix thread but my reply was so interesting I felt it needed its own dedicated thread. I don't know where this is going, I simply need to vent this, I've been thinking about bringing this up for quite a long time. This might not be the most eloquent way to write about it. Infact its not, its a stream of thought from me right to this message board)



    I'd say the majority of DnB music has stayed the same since 1997. Theres still going to be those like Digital and Total Science who will try to take the scene back to its roots, but no matter what the scene is changed forever. No longer is it open to anyone who buys $4,000 thousand dollars + of records and talks about how cool they think those records are, No! That was in 1992, its not that year anymore sadly, its now 2002! In 2002 only a select few can enjoy the bounties of drum and bass! Such a scene is just not ment for me nor will it ever be. God dammit I'm pissed off and jaded hardcore, let me tell you!:mad:


    I feel like a broken record talking about this, like the broken Seba & Lotek "So Long" record on my wall because I haven't found a replacement. Whats the point of collecting these expensive records if people won't recognise valuable talent? Such immoral scene politics have changed my thinking through and through. I now see why some people either choose to stay away from this scene or simply download bootleg mp3s all day long, it all makes perfect sense to me now. I used to be content with just buying records so that I can mix them for my own enjoyment but no longer. I now realize that I have a valuable talent that not too many people have and that fact that all the doors are shut to any job opportunaties in this field really gets my goat!!!! If theres a "glass ceiling" in DnB I believe it is becoming a good bedroom DJ and going nowhere from there. That would explain why so many people sell their record collections every day. Perhaps its just about time for me to say "So Long" as well.:mad:


    I don't mean to hijack the thread here, I just got off on a wild tangent and rode it out. Perhaps thats why I became so unpopular on the DOA, because people in this scene don't like to hear the "left" side? It would be very nice to see some reforms in this scene but the fact is that not to many people care. Those who are negativly effected by it simply leave to enjoy some other past time which I'm very close to myself.


    Well if I ever write a research paper in my Sociology studies where I can choose my own topic perhaps I would choose "The Sociology of politics in the electronic dance music industry"....(or something). I think I could do an excellent job on such a paper. Then again perhaps I'll be too upset about such a topic to be bothered with it. :shake:
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2002
  2. Serum

    Serum Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I feel pretty much the same but coming from a slightly different angle.
    I'd like to see many of the things you would (4/4 beats, less 2step, less formulaic sounds) as well as many of the new artists pushing new sounds (3d mode and hazard in particular). I've found it near impossible to really get people into this stuff. Most people who listen to my mixes will be wowing the filler tunes (like ram stuff or the occasional stakka & skynet which are most of the time just added for varation) but missing out the more innovative stuff that has new sounds never used before.
    What it all boils down to is that people like what they like.
    However it's not the end, you need to stop aiming at the internet community as it's pretty shit.
    I'd seriously consider going to the UK because there's more of an interest in the roots rather than techstep. For most people on the net techstep was the beginning and they didn't like jungle before. Maybe it's the attitude in the music that spoiled it for them, as techstep doesn't really have the ruffness that older jungle had.
    Ignore the net scene is what I'd advise as in the UK there's plenty of room for oldskool. You just got to find a city that is good for it, with potential to start up a night. On the net you can give and give but you rarely ever get anything for your troubles.
     
  3. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    1992, i just wanted to check something(being the last poster to the nitrous remix thread). did i sy something to set you off? or did i just kind of remind you of something you were going to say anyway? just curious. hope you can face your demons with the current state of the music and the scene and begin to enjoy it again. i'm sure we'd all love to have you back.

    need sleepy! goodbye.
     
  4. 1992

    1992 Novantadue

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    A few things. First of all "overhere51" I was very bored last night so I thought it would be a great time to put my thoughts down in ascci text, your message about all dnb tunes sounding like NYC progressive house w/ build ups that lead nowhere reminded me. Next I'm not leaving DnB forum unless it turns into a slanderfest like doa which it hasn't come close to yet.

    Next up I think Sercum missed what I was trying to say. It wasn't exactly a peer reviewed achedemic paper that I wrote there so my meaning might have gotten lost, who knows. Anyway I was bitching about two things, firstly that the music hasn't really progressed as much as it claims to have and more importantly the fact that even if you apply yourself to seek out jobs as a DJ person your choices for jobs are very limited if not impossible to attain because of the way the scene is now run (which probably dates back to 1994, I'm not certain). While I'm thinking about this heres another thought. The whole "you have to be a good dj to get gigs" is a myth. Anyone who listens to my genuine 1992 sets will know this for a fact. Carl cox couldn't mix his way out of a paper bag, he probably got his gigs because he was very carismatic and well into what he was doing. Playing at a few small clubs probably lead to friendships with promoters and it blossomed from there to the point that he now can probably afford two homes on his DJ pay alone. This worked out well for him because at the time this techno/house dj thing was new, not too many people were doing it so the people that were doing this would have been treated very well by their employers. Fast foward 10 years the scene is now a new form of consumerism on a global scale. There are more people "interested" in DJing then ever before and perhaps not as many promoters throwing parties as back then (certainly true in America, might not be the case in the UK). Also the scene is now run by the royalty, the town elders as I like to put it. If you don't kiss the feet of the royalty and appease to their ears musicly (if your not into the entire ram back catalog you can forget it) your taking a long walk off a short pier.


    Back in 1996 I ran into a jungle DJ who called himself "Time Stretch". This was at a geeky (but nice) internet rave bulletin board party. He played a nice set and even gave me a tape for free called "This style". These details aren't important. What is important to mention is that he was working hard to achieve recognition in the local scenes around here. I believe he eventually moved to Chicago because thats where the scene was happening at the time, he became involved in DnB that he later confessed to not even liking simply because he wanted to go somewhere with this. A few years latter I saw and heard him play at a party at Mt. Holioke(sp) college in western MA. He was playing the most depressing and sorrifull techstep I have ever heard yet it seemed like he was succeeding in getting ahead. Apparently this was not true at all. I found out what he thought of all this when I had an AIM conversation with him. He was not making money at this nor was he even having fun. One particular incident occured to him where he had to hop on a plane to get to a particular gig. When he got there he found out that the party he was spinning at wasn't promoted, infact no one showed up. When he finally tracked down the promoter he found that not only was no one showing up but he wasn't getting paid, not even for his plane ticket!!!! He came to the same conclusion that I'm coming to now, that these immoral politics and practices make the whole world of techno (techno as a blanket term) simply not worth while. At the time I heard this I though he was crazy for thinking such things yet just as he said, over time I would come to agree with him. Well he was right.


    Now you guys. How can you justify buying 20+ records a month at 6 pounds (10.00 dollars) a pop when you don't get paid money to preform your DJ services? It simply does not make sense to me to follow the scene this way when you damn well know you have a valuable talent which should be bringing in extra income or income at all (I don't have a "real" job now myself so this income would help me allot). Have you ever heard of a wedding DJ that spins weddings for free simply to "support the scene"? Have you heard of this I ask you? No! This is because the wedding dj circut is run by ethical professionals, thats why they dress up in suits.:mad:
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2002
  5. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    aw come on man i slander you all the time!!
     
  6. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    clarification on the answer to the question re: me

    check it 1992, i get what you're saying. i read it the first time, and i couldn't tell if you were bitching about something i said. but as it is very easily seen now, no, you're not bitching at me. go ahead and vent. i'm bored as fuck right now too, so i thought i'd make good use of my time and make sure things are crystal clear. a lot of tunes, not all, are going to hell in a handbasket. anyway, that's getting too particular about your response. in the the last part (about joining us), i meant us as in "the people who are not pretty much writing dnb off and/or still get some joy and happiness out of spinning records." sorry, i have still been up a while ( :crazy: ), so i hope nothing else is bass-fucking-akwards on this post, so no more confusion arises.

    so again, my apologies for any confused minds that may have resulted from my state of deprived sleep. :D
     
  7. M-Code

    M-Code Hubbidy Hibbedy

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    hmmmmmm........i never thought dj'ing was always about money. i've been a "bedroom" dj for about 7 years. i always thought it would be nice to play in a club someday but never held back on buying tunes just in case it never happened.....i love dj'ing dnb full stop, regardless of whether it's in my bedroom or in a club. i've been playing out regularly since february of this year and i'm getting paid for some sets and not others. when i do get paid it mostly doesn't cover the cost of the vinyl i played on that night but who cares? if someone asks me to play somewhere i will always say yes whether there's money involved or not just cos i love dj'ing.

    you don't become a superstar dj overnight.......it takes time and effort. i'm sure grooverider didn't step out of his bedroom and start commanding £1000 for an hour set. most people have to start at the bottom and work their way up. because i've played out alot since february, i rarely have ask for sets now, because the "royalty" now know what i'm like as a dj and will book me for their events.

    if you've trully got a passion for dnb/oldskool and dj'ing then it will happen if you want it to. you're never going to make the money you seem intent on making if you don't get out there and promote yourself.

    stick that in ya pipe and smoke it :pimp:
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2002
  8. Kanta

    Kanta Member

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    yeah i really dont care about making money from DJing

    i cut down on other things to afford vinyl.. and i buy vinyl because i like it. that justifies it right there. if i get booked thats just the icing on the cake.

    i'm playing at a club twice this month and at some pub in January... considering that I go to a university in Corvallis, OR which is innately one of the most hostile environments for drum n bass imaginable... much less the kind of stuff i play (reinforced, tango & ratty, t.s., digital, spirit, univ. project, etc etc)... i'm thrilled.

    point is, i the more i get into playing drum n bass, the more i think it would be silly for me to ditch it. i love it and no matter how bad things seem, no one's ever going to convince me to quit. that considered, once i graduate i'm never coming back here :D

    keep at it, its worth it :slayer:
     
  9. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    Im not sure how easy it is to get involved in the 'scene' in the US, but in the UK its nigh on inpossible. The up n coming room at 1Nation has had virtually the same names in it for the last 4 years. Sadly dubplate culture is a lot to do with it all as well as politics.

    I only played out a couple of times in the last 2-3 years, so I started my own night. A LOT of hard work, but well worth it (as long as you have money to lose). Thats the best way to get bookings, because you have a residency, and you can do set swaps with other people.
     
  10. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    it's not all that difficult to get a time slot here in the us (north carolina). most of the kids coming into the dnb scene (as well as others) have all had an entrepreneurial spirit. they started by renting out a small venue (like a restaurant or small bar), had tables up and 4 kids spun their new records. like $3 cover charge with a drink special. there are many kids out here (in nc) that are getting massive recognition because of the production work they do, that was brought about by the kind of scene and the kind of parties they were doing. i think many realized that they are not trying to make a massive profit off the party, but rather are doing it because they love the music, and now major names are more willing to help out (usually by taking pay cuts).

    ink will be in charlotte, nc, on nov. 6 (wednesday) for $7 usa. the capacity of the venue is less than 300 (almost positive on that).

    does this type of thing still happen in uk?
     
  11. Scotty

    Scotty New Member

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    so many bedroom dj`s, so much whinging.

    you wanna play out then put on a night and try and build up a crowd, its not easy but constant bitching is gonna get you nowhere. you get nuthin in this life handed to you on a plate, unfortunately many people dont understand that.
     
  12. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    overhere51- some djs do play for cheaper fees, but I dont think its as common with DnB djs.

    Simply because why play a small party for 'x' amount when they can play a large party for 3 times as much.

    Most small parties here may have a few up n comings with one large name. We started off like that, but once you have built a following, you can afford to go without the big name.
     
  13. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    believe it or not, some people still get into music because they love it, and not just because they can make a buck off it.

    here's a paraphrased-quote from a big-name dj/producer, touring with another big-name dj/producer (i don't want to step on toes, so no names [but labels the two are on include dsci4, cause 4 concern, shadow law recordings], *yeah, i know you guys down here do this for the love of it, and don't make a lot of cash...we'll pretty much do it for whatever you can give us, provided we get a place to stay and some gas money.* it's a 6 hour drive from they are to where we are (charlotte, nc).

    there are a lot of people who like to see the scene grow, and are willing to help out when they can. if only negative comments and attitudes are put in, only negative comments and attitudes will come out.
     
  14. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    Ive had some extremely good deals off of big name djs who have helped out me and my small nights. But my point is that big name djs over here are rarely seen at smaller nights (the main exception being Blackmarket) simple because of the prices they charge.

    No disrespect to the people you booked, but how big a dj name they in the UK? Over here people want to hear Andy C, Hype, Shy FX at a big dnb night. Its hard work filling a club with anyone less.
     
  15. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    okay, the name of the other person they were touring with was cause 4 concern. big enough of a name for you? granted, the one that was "quoted" was american, so transportation cost is reduced (drive instead of fly).

    klute played in chartlotte last january, and ink will be here on wednesday. the cover charge is $7 (like 5 pounds), on a wednesday night. they capacity is less than a few hundred (probably 250 max). you'd have to be charging next to nothing to only charge $7 a head, plus room and board, plus transportation, and have to promoter break even.

    again, i've never been to uk, so i don't want to sound as though i'm telling you that you are wrong. getting a time slot can be done. it just takes a whole lot of dedication and a huge set of balls to risk it. too much for some people to do.

    are there any kind of local upstarts in the uk that are successful? or at least enjoyed? break even financially?
     
  16. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    My night is starting to break even! :)

    the people you mentioned are rarely heard at the 'big' raves over here tho. Not wihing to cause an argument, but hte main peopel over here are andy c, shy fx, dillinja, randall, brockie etc
     
  17. overhere51

    overhere51 Member

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    yeah, i get what you mean by "big name" people. we often times (we being kids i'm around [usa]) see these massive lineups and can't imagine it. but then again, it's nice to let someone have a two-hour set, which is not unusual for the parties in this area. what the fuck can you do in 60 minutes?! haha.

    thanks for the feedback, genocide.
     
  18. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    These 'big name' line-ups arent all they've cracked up to be tho. You rarely, if ever, see the likes of Cause 4 concern playing at 1Nation etc. Doesnt mean they arent better than the heap of crap that is Shy FX.

    Because Shy FX is an established producer, he is booked, despite the fact he cant mix. Also due to having 8 djs in 8 hours, you end up hearing the same anthems 8 times a night.

    Last NYE, Shake ur body was apparently played by 6 different djs. I heard Hype rewind 3 times before I left the room.

    The up n coming room at 1Nation has been almost the same for the last 4 years as i said. A dj called Frosty (who also plays for me :)) plays there. He is honestly the most talented dj I have EVER heard, but he is still trying to break thru.
     
  19. Serum

    Serum Well-Known Member

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    It's very different in the UK
    round my way you can get a decent crowd for local nights, but big names do help, but we got a lot of popular locals, like hazard, jb&spice and devize & 3a who (apart from jb) hardly anyone has heard of, and in my books devize writes the most innovative tunes you can get today.
    Techstep so different even 1992 might like it!
    Shame is most his stuff doesn't get released. His dubplate sets are amazing tho.
     
  20. genocide

    genocide New Member

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    Problem for me is Serum, we are still trying to 'educate' our audience so they dont just want to hear- chopper, wolf, twist em out and all the usual.

    Its bloody hard work, and even harder when you are losing money. Its unbelievable how many people complain about paying £3 for entry.