DJs advice needed ! DnB Producer !

Discussion in 'Production' started by Paradigm X, Feb 5, 2004.

  1. Paradigm X

    Paradigm X Member

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    All,

    IM a dnb producer. Would love input from a dj as i dont mix, in terms of what a dj wants from a track, ie intros, outro etc... please listen and let me know.

    http://www.dnbforum.com/showthread.php?t=8447

    @mods - sorry if im being cheeky, but is a genuine request !

    PLease delete rather than ban if necesaary, I like this place !

    peace
     
  2. jay walker

    jay walker 1/2 of Passive/Aggressive

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    We dont want you banned Paradigm X ! Best bet would be to listen to a selection of vinyls/complete tunes - an get an idea how the structure is, i could send you a few low-quality whole tracks so you can have a listen.

    You on AIM? i could put a zip selection together for you ;)
     
  3. Dave_Akuma

    Dave_Akuma aka composite.human

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    i'm not a dj (not yet, still trying to learn) but i try to buy vinyl as often as i can to get a feel for it...and i'm sure we've all got a collection of tunes on our hard drives and all that...i try to find mix sets that feature songs that i've heard in their entirety beforehand, so i can get a better feel for making songs dj friendly...but i've also heard that a skilled dj can mix in pretty much any tune...
     
  4. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    Yo, I guess the main thing that DJs look for is a nice flow to the rhythm structure of a track.
    Whether you wanna bust in with mad drums at the start or not is not as important as the timing.
    Different types of tune have different patterns.

    Example: it can sound crap (though not impossible as Dave Akuma points out) to mix say .. a tune by EdRush & Optical into a tune by Twisted Individual. They are both dNb but ER&O tend to use longer rhythm patterns than TI ( or Pascal, or whatever).

    If you miss the place to drop-needle on many ER&O tunes, u have to wait longer for it to come past again than you would for a TI track, cos TI's stuff is simple beat loops mostly.

    Dunno if this makes any sense, but I'm tryin to say that even if a tune is beat-matched it still might have a diff overall timing pattern than another given tune.
    And it is this unique rhythm which makes or breaks a track's overall feel. There are no hard and fast rules except consistency within the tune you're making.

    Okay, all the producer heads out there could have explained that whole lot better than me, with better language, and I've probably confused you needlessly with rambling.

    :mr_cool: :mr_cool: :mr_cool: :twitch:
     
  5. jay walker

    jay walker 1/2 of Passive/Aggressive

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    Makes perfect sense to me Mesh! Good points there, fo shizal! :rasta:
     
  6. Bad Ace

    Bad Ace Close2Death

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    this prolly wont help u 1 lil bit but always put a lil hihat or sumin tappin away on ur intros cause otherwise its hard as fuck to mix strings n that without a rythm in there unless ur names mampi swift.or hi filter a beat so there is sumin in there to mix with unless u are intending it to be an intro track in that what ive wrote is complete shit.lol peace mate :crazy:
     
  7. Paradigm X

    Paradigm X Member

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    Cheers, Jay, Dave, Mesh, and Traxie, all very good ideas. Im tryin a new mix of Kromatik Kollapse at the mo, makin it more DJ friendly, and working on the overall mix.

    Cheers for your help!

    Peace

    PDX
     
  8. DJ RINSA

    DJ RINSA New Member

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    Its always good to have a clear snare sound througout the peace this makes it easier to beatmatch. If you have any vocals in a song try not to have any in the intro and have a simple drum beat with like no bass at the beginning and gradually drop new parts in e.g bass piano etc. You want a gradual outro where the beats get more simple again or like just the snare.

    Thats wot i like wen im mixin but i dunno wot other djs like. Is up to you really how your tune is set out cos gud djs should be able to mix any tune wiv any ova 1
    :typing: o_O :beers: :sniper:
     
  9. MFU

    MFU New Member

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    Tough one to a certain extent.
    I've been mixing up for about 10 years now & have only recently starting making tunez.

    Style is quite important, as the style that I make isnt always the style that I play.A nice steady flow through out the tune is always good.

    As a DJ its nice to have a solid beat to mix into for maybe a min or so. How u work it to make it sound good & not just a repetative loop to get to the drop is another problem only overcome by experience. (me still working on that one)
    Some tunes start off with loads of ambiance & break into beats making a nice emotional effect other get right into it from the get go.

    Hope that helps, also dont forget a nice section to mix out of in a similar fashion.

    :soap_box:
    MFU
     
  10. Scruff McGruff

    Scruff McGruff New Member

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    Just make sure there is a nice clean break starting off the track, or else maybe a hi hat keepin the beat. If you start with atmospherics make sure the beats or drop start predictibly. It sucks when you've got it beatmatched but the beats dont drop on the right part. The best advice I can give is just listen to other peoples tracks and observe the arrangements. How the song starts, where it drops, and how it ends. A good DJ should be able to mix whatever u throw at him, but as a DJ I much prefer a predictable song that will blend well with another song, and not sound choppy when it drops. Hope that helps a bit
     
  11. Affliction

    Affliction thought size didnt matter

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    my personal opinion is fuck what DJ's "want" or find "easy".... just do whatever you want it's your track, it's all about expressing. I agree with the guy who said a good DJ can mix anything..... making easy DJ fodder is just going to add to the waves upon waves of wannabe, second rate DJ's.

    I say give the DJ's a challenge :nutkick: :rslayer: ;)
     
  12. KidKut

    KidKut Member

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    Second afflictions points..... ive been djing 9 years and i dont want no ez shit buahahahaha

    Bad Ace, shame on you! put a hat in for vocal intros :p man just feel de rhydm :p

    edge of your pants crew big up ! :)
     
  13. Scruff McGruff

    Scruff McGruff New Member

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    lol...weeding out the weak DJs through production....interesting theory =)
     
  14. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    I appreciate your point Affliction. However I think he is trying to learn the structure of dNb and some of the little tips to make a tune more accessible to DJs.
    You have to know what 'rules' if you wanna break them properly right?
    As for good DJs being able to mix 'anything' and the rest of us being 'wannabe second-rate DJs' , well ...

    :soap_box: :soap_box: :soap_box:
     
  15. Affliction

    Affliction thought size didnt matter

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    I fully understood the question, i just didnt really see why there was a need to ask it. Sitting down at a desk and thinking "right, i'm gonna break all the rules in this tune", is just as bad (or worse) then sitting down and writing to a set of guidelines.

    MUSIC, on the whole, exists for 1 reason and 1 reason only... for the artist to express themselves.... "rules" should be the furthest thing from his/her mind when producing. Why should people make their tunes more accessable to DJ's, why not make DJ's more accessable to tunes? (ie more skillful mixing). Not only would the quality of music go up, the quality of DJ would go up too.... surely a win/win situation??
     
  16. mesh

    mesh Active Member

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    He asked a fair question cos he wanted an answer.

    As for this: "MUSIC, on the whole, exists for 1 reason and 1 reason only... for the artist to express themselves.... "

    This philosophy obviously serves you well when producing, but not all people agree.
    Many would say dance music belongs to the listener as much as the producer, and that the reaction from a listener or a raver is important to many producers. Why do we have dubplates? Why do artists often make changes before general release, after they have seen a dancefloor reaction? Why not release everything made, as long as the artist is fulfilled?

    fine, see ya
     
  17. Scruff McGruff

    Scruff McGruff New Member

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    another point....if the producer created a song say...with changing time signatures and tempos and the like it would probably be less likely to be played by a DJ. So following the normal structures of DnB would make your song more likely to have appeal to others, and more likely to be put in a set. Granted I agree that this takes away from your artistic expression. However if u are going for dancefloor smashers, sometimes it is less about artistic expression and more about putting together some good sounds in a way to move a crowd IMO.
     
  18. Paradigm X

    Paradigm X Member

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    Very succinctly put mr mcrgruff.

    Hey thought Id jump in here.... !

    While i completely agree with affliction, I used to do shit like that, write a one off 3/4 bar, change the tempo, all this shit mainly to piss off a dj. then decided since djs play (and buy ) all the unes, why go out your way to do there heads in. While i completely agree music is about expression, i dont think youre completely compromising youre artisitic integrity by putting a hihat over the intro. Ive played a lot of gigs (PDX HISTORY) and the majority of comments were like wicked tracks, but well hard to dance to. And then i 'sold out'/went normal ie bum tit bum tit 2 bar beats. (besides in them days it was much slower so cut up amens were easier to deal with). Check Idiom at www.anthrophone.com/paradigm/idiom.mp3 or pivotal at www.anthrophone.com/paradigm/pivotal.mp3 for examples.

    sorry didnt mean to turn this into blatent self publicity just trying to make a point, this is dance floor music for 3 in the morning and A i would prefer a dj to drop it than not because its a bastard to mix and B give some people soiemthing wicked to enjoy, not do a squarepusher and be only enjoyed by technicians. bit like technical jazz which i fuckin hate. lets face it if my track gets released and mixed, no one will hear the beginning or end anyway, so the middle is where you can bust loose and be creative, so why not go mad ? I just was interested in what djs (i dont mix) like to mix with, never asked before and am just interested !

    So cheers for all the comments there all incredibly uselful, big ups and peace to all of you !

    Cheers

    PDX

    :beers:
     
  19. Re-Form

    Re-Form Re-Form

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    Totaly agree on this one do what you feel is right . If you need advice listen to tracks from people that inspire you that should be all you need to get you on your way
     
  20. missrepresent

    missrepresent Member

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    Ok

    zinc makes tunes with missing beats and so do a few like danny C - where they purposely make a tune harder to mix in order to ween out the shit Dj's... but it actually makes it more fun to mix !

    If you see the garage scene, its so dull trying to mix garage as its so simple to mix. And house, all the beats are the same etc ...


    So when theres a tune thats a challenge, it spices it up a bit !


    Truely enough, its nice to have some sort of beat, click or beep going from the beginning to make tunes easyer to mix for the begginner, but stick vocals where you like ! You shouldnt make tunes (like people have said) for the Dj -

    you should make tunes for yourself and the people who dance to it !

    Dj's are just people playing other peoples music.
    Its the crowd on teh dancefloor that needs pleasing