Differences between playing an instrument and making music on your computer?

Innovine said:
I've not heard a keyboard playing a violin sound that is remotely as nice as a good quality violin played by a good musician.

And then you want to go and distort it? That sort of shows your level of dedication to high quality sound right there.
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Ofcourse i have respect for real instruments, but when you can distort them you sometimes get something good for a new tune
 
I was thinking about this more today and in terms of expression I was thinking there is pluses and minuses to both.

For violin the plus is that it is 'live' and all hands on but then I thought a minus is that you are only ever likely to be playing other people's music so in that sense you're just a technician rather than an artist.

On the other side we have computers which prima facie people bash for not requiring skill to use (which is crap cos of course to make really good stuff it takes skill like anything else) but there is the fact that you are creating your own music so it is something unique- of course there is different degrees of this and many make cookie cutter tunes but everyone with a brain knows they are idiots and not 'real' artists :).

So in some sense I think it's kind of lame that you will just be 'copying' what other people have written with violin it sort of takes the wind out of it. I am only talking in theory of course as I imagine it's still a joy to play a seminal piece well but still you always know you didn't write it whereas with making music on the comp you can have that pride aspect creating something from scratch.

It's similar to how I felt sort of lame djing as it's such a 'pseudo' thing. Even turntablism I find pretty silly even though I appreciate it takes skill to do scratching tricks I still think it's silly where they just go back and forth making the same sorts of noises but 'normal' djing- forget abouuddd it'.

Then again, when I've watched yoyo ma play it is clear he is possessed and is reaching the heights of human expression despite playing someone else's piece.
 
Hmm, some interesting points, and I agree with you on most stuff. But, there's nothing saying that you have to be original all the time either, well, just retards on internet forums. Look at folk music for example. You can play fiddle there and be a well respected and established artist, without ever playing an original note, but that is not a disadvantage for that kind of music. It's not expected that you are original, cos carrying on traditions is the main point of folk. Electronic music has a sort of identity crisis in that its soaked in a culture of always needing to be original to be cool. I think this a very teenage desire to express it's own self worth by rebelling and standing out. It'll pass :) Look to the core of the musical experience, it is always getting people together and playing to and with the audience. On a good night, the band, musican, dj, whatever, is playing the crowd, and the crowd responds and contributes. This is a beautiful feedback thing when it happens and everyone there feels it on some level. That's why production in your bedroom is basically just masturbation.
 
Good points by you too.

To me, it's not so much that I am wanting to create something original to fit into some social norm of what is cool but rather would I feel content and that I had gained a catharsis to a satisfactory extent if just copying someone else's stuff. We could get into what is cool and what you define as cool is prob a complex interrelation between you and others but I don't think there is a requirement to go there for now :).

I agree though that the live element is a big part too, like even though normal djing you're not doing anything creative really it's more the interaction with the crowd which makes the experience fulfilling and enjoyable.

Same with folk music which was a good example, it is more about bringing the vibe that the folk composers made and you are just a conduit for that vibe.

In any case it's about finding that flow experience.

I guess it's doing what is most convenient for you.

I think djing is more a social thing in that to get that good experience you have to have a crow d to play to. Sure I liked playing at home but it was always with an image of 'imagine if I were playing this out to a crowd'. I spose that's the same in a sense creating music as well but the rewards can be more immediate I think cos of the added creative aspect.

Of course everything is likely better shared with others appreciating your art but the more creative I guess the more involved you can be when doing it alone.
 
Playin a musical instreument is so so different to production

I play Trumpet, Piano, Guitar and Drums myself, but havent done as much live performance as i should have been doing really

Too much sitting in the studio churning out DnB :)

I think they can be used together though definately, i actually used my trumpet skills on a tune of ours called Clash (www.soundcloud.com/zeal-litta) also featured a mate on trombone too
 
This bullshit is pissing me off now.

I've been trying to set the korg up as a step sequencer and it's made it frustratingly clear why I hate getting stuck in the programming bullshit.

I had to ferret around for ages trying to find the stupid obscure programs that will make it work the way I want then I find out there are no .exe files so I'm presuming now they might be for linux.

I have no time for delayed gratification. I want to make music to get rid of all this clogged up stress and this is just frustrating me more.

I'm thinking it might be worth plumping for an efx thingy now even if it's expensive if it would give me instant gratification.

The whole point of me getting back into music was to have a replacement to drugs as a stress reliever but this delayed gratification crap is making it worse.

I am not like some baby who cannot deal with a learning curve but if a man is starving of thirst in the desert he doesn't have time to wait for people to drill down and construct a whole water system before he can get sustenance.
 
If I get an esx or emx will I be able to make acid type techno just with that or will I require other stuff? I wouldn't mind doing the synths and stuff with software and keyboard but I'm attracted to the korg products because they seem a more interactive way to get bit going as I hate the point and click. So long as I can do that 'live' I'd be happy layering the synths etc on keyboard after/during. I just want a setup to be a live as I can (and can afford) while still being electronic.
 
Yeah I think an emx would suit you just fine. It's about as live as it gets. You can do pretty reasonable techno entirely with the machine (and some headphones), and you'll get a lot out of a midi cable to your computer if you wanna sync up the emx with your computer later on, but that's not essential. The emx is ready to rock straight out of the box. The esx is a lot more fiddly. They are also holding their used value pretty well, so you wont be out much if/when you decide to sell it.
 
How well does this emulate tb-303/acid type sounds?

I was looking on youtube last night and drooling as I was watching vids of the old acid house hardware.

I then instantly wanted one and did a search on ebay to see a nice vintage price tag of over around 1500 pounds then shit myself and came back to reality and started looking for tb-303 vsts :).

Would it be possible to route a tb-303 vst through either an emx or esx if you used them as a midi controller or something? Then you could get pretty authentic tb-303 plus all the other oldschool hardware at an affordable price while keeping a hardware interface.

Just found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzXtxt0va0 which looks like he's doing something like that.

This would be ideal for me if it doing what I think it is.
 
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Rogue Cypher said:
How well does this emulate tb-303/acid type sounds?

I was looking on youtube last night and drooling as I was watching vids of the old acid house hardware.

I then instantly wanted one and did a search on ebay to see a nice vintage price tag of over around 1500 pounds then shit myself and came back to reality and started looking for tb-303 vsts :).

Would it be possible to route a tb-303 vst through either an emx or esx if you used them as a midi controller or something? Then you could get pretty authentic tb-303 plus all the other oldschool hardware at an affordable price while keeping a hardware interface.

Just found this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFzXtxt0va0 which looks like he's doing something like that.

This would be ideal for me if it doing what I think it is.
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I'm not really into the acid sound so I can't say much, but you get that general sort of thing out of it for sure. No reason you couldn't connect yours to a computer in the same way, but if you are after fine control and high quality sound then the electribe may disappoint. It's important to know that the electribes strength is that its quick and dirty. Now it also happens to works ok as a controller, but there are probably better controllers if thats what you want.
An emu command station is a much more capable midi sequencer. It's a good bit more fiddly than the electribe and the synth sounds are pretty dated, but it's great for sequencing. much bigger learning curve. Maybe an rm1x too, but I dont have experience with that.

So I dunno, I get the impression you just wanna twist some knobs and have some fun. If so, an emx is the shit. If you want to write some higher quality tunes (with the associated time required for editing and tweaking and all) then it's probably not the best choice.

For bass, see if you can find an mb-33. They're pretty cheap and do great acid bass :) Just add a distortion pedal. once you start getting hardware you cant stop :P
 
Yup I def see the addiction potential of getting hardware since I'm starting to realize what each thing does whereas before I had no idea what all those lights and knobs did.

In terms of what you said above I kind of want both or at least due to these things being expensive and me being on a tight budget I want to explore all my options and get the most versatile piece of kit for my money.

The vid seemed to only be using the emx to make the track (i.e without any pointing and clicking) yet had programmed it with vsts.

I'm happy to program so long as once it's programmed I can let rip and jam without being halted mid session to reclick etc. but programming beforehand I don't mind. I actually enjoy it so long as like I say it is a beforehand thing and then I can enjoy what I programmed for the duration without interruption. It's the clicking the notes and doing arrangement in software I don't like rather than the programming part.

I guess a midi controller step sequencer with enough assignable knobs is what I'm after really. If I could hook it up to a program which had the steps on but I also had the hardware controlling the steps or just the hardware doign the steps plus the knobs that is what I really want methinks.
 
oh, software is by far the most versatile. You can do basically anything, and it's not gonna cost an arm or a leg. I just end up not getting anything done with it :)
 
Rogue Cypher said:
I guess a midi controller step sequencer with enough assignable knobs is what I'm after really. If I could hook it up to a program which had the steps on but I also had the hardware controlling the steps or just the hardware doign the steps plus the knobs that is what I really want methinks.
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Hey. Just came across this thread and wanted to say it sounds like Native Instruments Maschine is what you want.

I've had the same dilemma described here going back and forth between hardware and software, constantly frustrated by the inherent technical limitation of hardware and the uninspiring mouse-driven process of using computer software. Maschine was the only thing I've found that combines the best aspects of both.

I also recommend Electribes as nothing else comes closer for immediacy but for me they're still too limited to be used for full production by itself. I use an EMX as a sketchpad for ideas and making my own sounds. But even that gets sampled into Maschine and everything ultimately ends up in Logic for mixing and finishing up. Most of the actual production process happens in Maschine and it's a real joy not having to use a mouse or even to look at the computer screen.
 
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