Clean production vs messy/noisey

Discussion in 'Production' started by Sammy Dexcell, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Sammy Dexcell

    Sammy Dexcell Stop editing my profile Smarty!

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    I keep hearing really noisey tracks where the producer has clearly whacked in 50 snares and has a shit load of breaks, some massive saw chord sidechain noisey lead, crazy ott samples etc......

    Which do you prefer? For me, I'm a clean lover. The more clinical and spaced everything sounds the more "wow'd" i get.
    Hence why I'm finding it incredibly difficult to like any of the old tunes I used to love. Listening back there are so many unnecessary frequencies and overlapping sounds. (I know im kind of being a hipocrit as we have fallen victim to the noisey sound but still its worth a debate)

    An e.g of clean production would be something like Technimatic - Unfinished Business??? I fucking love this track.....BUT it has a bit of 'noiseyness' to it if I'm being super picky.
    I can't think of a really clean track off the top of my head without shamelessly plugging one of our own lol

    Basically I mean tracks that have clear cut decay's on kicks n snares, tight choppy breaks, every element is hitting the right frequencies, no sounds are overlapping each other and the tune has real depth and room to breath? May in some cases sound a bit empty, but to me less is way more!
    Some Enei tracks and Break tunes have that type of sound.....fuck it, this thread seemed a lot easier to think of than it was to poorly explain! :S

    One of you must know what I mean lol
     
  2. Dugg Funnie

    Dugg Funnie Well-Known Member

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    I think for me it depends on the track/genre. Some slower glitch-hop stuff can sound really dope phat nasty with a lil' dirt on it. But for neurofunk D'n'B, that shit better be cleaner than a baby's behind.


    Though one of my favorite examples of a nice clean mix is this track right here.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2015
  3. Eternaloptimist

    Eternaloptimist Active Member

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    i know exactly what you are talking about. i also like to hear nice clean hits. and when more percussion is added I WANT TO HEAR THAT! layering can work for some people but it takes more skill to get it sounding nice. i generally hate tracks that too "busy".
    Minor Rain, Skeptical, Clarity (no pun), Fracture for me :spliff:
     
  4. Sammy Dexcell

    Sammy Dexcell Stop editing my profile Smarty!

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    Yea i hear ya. Never heard that track before I really like those type of tunes reminds me of Eskimo or Eksmo? But yea that's kinda what I mean?
    I was aiming it at DnB though.
    The difference between a Dancefloor track from Smooth or Fred V compared to a techy neuro track from Enei or Break etc.
    Saying that, every Sub-genre has there noisey tracks tho.....Just depends whether or not its intentionally done or if its actually the limit to their production skills???
    I'm going blank for specific tracks.

    Tbf it's a bit of an unfair question as I'm yet to hear anyone successfully stray from their "sound".
    So a producer like Smooth for eg has his sound locked down, I doubt we would ever hear him bang out an Instra:mental type track? (If by any chance Smooth is reading this which i doubt, #nooffence ;))
     
  5. Sammy Dexcell

    Sammy Dexcell Stop editing my profile Smarty!

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    YES! Minor Rain that's a fucker who can clean up his tunes! An yea Percussion! Icicle - Minimal funk comes to mind, simple clean and hench!
     
  6. d-low

    d-low I know you got soul

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    super clean (y)
     
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  7. mr meh

    mr meh Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I definitely prefer clean rather than rough sounding tunes, I think thats one of the reasons I never really got into 90's dnb tbh. Most of that stuff sounds pretty muddy/messy to me.
     
  8. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

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    Was having this convo with Dubba Jonny the other day too actually. Back in the day everything wanted to be lazy, sloppy breaks and things a bit more natural etc. But now listening to stuff like Calyx teebee Hurting, its impossible to understand how they make a track sound so big with only like a couple of hats here and there! Also i swear Headlock only has one hat through the main section - 1 HAT!

    Im still struggling to understand how these tunes sound so big but it just works, dnb has evolved massively over the last few years in terms of clinical production. Its deffo astounding to me, I layer up 3 breaks and it still sounds shit haa!
     
  9. Sammy Dexcell

    Sammy Dexcell Stop editing my profile Smarty!

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    Yea I hear ya. See some of dubba's tracks are quite messy at times. Don't get me wrong some tracks need the filling out like that. But im way more into sussing out the 1 hat and a sick kick n snare combo. That is fucking impressive though 1 hat lol
    See this is how we are evolving our sound too. we used to use alot of breaks and shit loads of snare n kick layers with dodgy samples from random vinyl's practically fuck all eq'ing. Nowadays its 1 maybe 2 high passed breaks with a massive kick n snare then some extra hats to create a rhythm then just let the bass n rhodes carry you. Im loving the rhodes atm.
    Check out our Dexcember mix and listen to a track called 'drifting' we went into that track with the mindset of elevate this sound and then went completely astray but its the kind of minimal/cleanlyness im talking about. Compared to say...'Watch out' (1:17:00) which has a fair amount of stuff going on in it! We got proper stiff necks from skankin out to that one lol
    Hope all is well hit me up with some of your new beats bredda!

    These are old but this is what i prefer over our other tracks?


    Ive also noticed creating a HENCH mixdown is 10x easier when you have fewer things going on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
  10. spyre

    spyre sample all the things

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    It doesn't depend on the genre, some tunes just sound 'right'
     
  11. sam the dnb man

    sam the dnb man Variation

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    Yeah I've been trying to be abit more clinical with percussion. Not just filling every gap like I used to.
    I used to have fuck loads of layers ect but lately I've been trying to tone it down.

    I do like to apply a touch of overdrive to the drum bus though to grit it up a bit.
     
  12. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

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    Yeh brians tracks are known to be hectic but for his stuff its all about the basses, he spends like 10 minutes on cymbals lol

    But yeh i havent actually sat down and tried to do a simple hat pattern but now you mention about the mixdown, makes perfect sense! stuff would be much easier to get big! How are you getting on with it? any tips before I get started (PM if you like ha)

    Will check out Drifting when im home, at work atm. will send you some bits when I actually finish something decent, got bare intros atm but nothing else.. struggling to know what type of dnb im good at making :/
     
  13. IV4

    IV4 Currently a newt.

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    I like songs on both ends of that spectrum. With no preference of one over the other. I am sure a happy medium would be the correct amount of clean for me but I know when I produce I usually get negative feedback when I do(at least for me) precise eqing and drum placement. You know taking the time to get every drum sample in key. Minimal hats and rides. Really take to for specific placement and volume.
    As far as listening to other peoples work like I said I enjoy both. But what gets me really excited are the real messy drums. They have a raw edge to them that grips my soul.
    What about people like London Elktricity. That guy sometimes seems to have both messy and yet so clean drums at the same time. I think maybe he has his own drummer to that.
    Well I am just rambling at this point but I too am curious to see what others think.
     
  14. lostnthesound

    lostnthesound Burns Easily in the Sun

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    I'm with IV on this one in that I like my tunes in both clean and dirty flavors.

    I think it really depends on the type of tune you're writing and the vibe you're going after. And sometimes combining the best of both world's can create some great results, a la Audio's "Headroom;" it's got pristine sounding drums with a completely gritty bassline.
     
  15. IV4

    IV4 Currently a newt.

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    Just thought of something. You know what I like best about the amen? How raunchy it sounds. It is not clean at all. So maybe I do lean toward the dirty side. But I stand by my statement of it is a balance between the two.
     
  16. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    whats interesting about that is that the amen original recording in stereo is a little dirtier on one side and a little cleaner o the other. bit more reverb on the left i think it was
     
  17. Nick Hammer

    Nick Hammer Member

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  18. Elzerk

    Elzerk 00111100 00110011

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    I like it messy when the dirt is controlled and flows with the tune. Not the kind of messy like some amateur mixing levels or compressing incorrectly but more like the crunchy distorted mess. And loud, definitely loud.
     
  19. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

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  20. Sammy Dexcell

    Sammy Dexcell Stop editing my profile Smarty!

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    So my tips have turned into an essay on how I Mixdown in FL! :rolleyes:
    I'm just listening over a track I've been working on recently. As I wrote it out I then looked at my track and realised I've contradicted myself on a few things lol
    I wanna share the knowledge as it's all about sharing but I may have to just PM you lol If i post it here it will steer this thread away and if i start a new thread ill just be saturating the forum with another Mixdown thread..... If its at all useful to you then I s'pose we can make a thread about it :/

    Anyway, Back on topic... I FUCKING HATE AMENS......yea I said it! An what?! lol

    I'm just sick of their sound, and I hate how many producers simply cop out and use them entirely as their main drums!
    I have only (rarely) used them as a layer for high end. That's about it....I've really gone off them!

    Clean to me is less on the entire hits of breaks and more the snappy feel. I do get that some tracks just NEED the extra decay but those are the ones I listen to an are not overly impressed with?? I end up focusing on other things in the tune to see if any effort has gone in elsewhere to justify the lazy processing on the drums...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013