class discussion

Discussion in 'Waffle' started by logikz, Apr 3, 2014.

  1. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    i was reading a thread on DOA which kind of made me unsure. i never gave a fk about class, but the discussion made me think it is
    a very real thing, and rather important.

    what class are you, if you say so yourself? how do you know? what difference does it make, where youre from?

    ok so before i begin my rant, i havent been to sweden for ten years, so chances are things have changed, but i doubt it.

    the reason why im so oblivious of class is that it has been made largely irrelevant in sweden. at least on the surface.
    money will always be money, and that will always be the great decider of what this "class" thing really is about,
    which is who waits on who, in a nutshell, isnt it. when it really comes down to it, and without being funny about it.

    there are class differences in sweden, but they are either enormous like immigrant project suburb ghetto supermarket parkinglot with nothing but broken glass and concrete as far as the eye can see vs. the beautiful old money mansions on what looks like rolling hills of golf courses with sailing boats, plenty of cars, beautiful kids in private schools in the capital centrum whos shoes iphones and haircuts alone could pay for that entire suburb i was talking about earlier.

    which is lower class vs. upper class of course.

    there is that, and it angers my swedish upbringing that it should be that way. sweden has worked day and night for 100 years to erradicate class differences, and as close as they got, i got a feeling it only made things (the gap) worse.

    but its rare. very rare, for the most part, in my experience, for 90% of the population currently in sweden, immigrant or not, there is one class.
    the big uniform one with very nearly unnoticable class difference between two families of the same size, living in the same nice and quiet area,
    with the same standard of living, same school for the kids, same cars and tvs and going abroad once a year, etc,
    but, and this is strange but true, completely different incomes and backgrounds.

    this, i imagine, would be the middle class.

    funny thing about the middle class is that it divides into many different sections and categories, and it seems its only your sense of entitlement
    that really determines where you actually belong. or stand. not sure what verb goes there. maybe.


    in the uk i get the impression you can use any number of things to tell what class a person is, and subsequently how you should act towards them.
    you can tell what class a person is by what news paper they read, i find that curious. i dont watch tv, nor do i read newspapers.
    or what school they went to, which is also curious, as all schools in sweden are free, unless you really really want to pay for one.
    you can tell what class a person is by how they speak, how they introduce themselves, the way they dress, what car they drive,
    all these things makes me think the uk is a country acutely aware of class.

    where im from, to be overly concscious of class, is looked down upon. its considered tactless. to be lowerclass is strickly forbidden, sure, but specially to try and project overclass, it have a golden tremendous watch, a mercedes, a mozart hairdue, and some sort of tie made of buffed chrome, wide as a sail, in an italian suit with boeing wingspan shoulders, constantly talking about selling expensive things, being expensive places at expensive seasons for no other reason than expensive, that sort of thing will get you into alot of golf and yatch clubs, even without playing or owning a yatch, but it wont make people think of you as "upper class". quite the opposite, as "upper class" is actually a bit of an insult in the swedish language. just lots of "class" is a very subtle and desirable thing when you get to a certain stage in life, it seems.
     
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  2. $marty

    $marty Dexcell Staff Member

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  3. $marty

    $marty Dexcell Staff Member

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  4. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    whoa. that was not fun to read. is that only for people with families then? and, more importantly, jobs? or does it apply to highway men and reavers alike?
     
  5. Gloxxy

    Gloxxy I SNORT COAL

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    I am working class.
     
  6. Moskit

    Moskit :rodigan: Staff Member

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    People here use class all the time to guage how they should act toward/think about/treat people etc.

    They're known as "twats".

    Yes class division exists hugely, stereotypes of class used for comedy purposes are a huge source of lols, no doubt...

    But if you genuinely use it to judge people before you've spoken to/met them, then refer to the "twats" section.

    :rodigan:
     
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  7. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    logikz, I read every word of your (as usual) long post and I must say that you are worrying too much on how people classify themselves, based on what they can buy, or what kind of neighbourhood they live, and so on.

    By reading your post, I could clearly see how things in Europe are much better than here, where I live, even if you all say they aren't.

    By brazilian "standards", I'm classified as "upper mid-class", or "C+ class". This class is the most screwed up, as I don't have government support of any kind, and yet I pay more taxes than any other lower, or upper classes.
     
  8. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    not sure why this thread isnt kicking off tbh. this place is crawling with working class dweebs with just about everything in the world to prove to everyone else, it should by all rights rustle untold jimmies. worrying.

    fun fact, the most miserable people ive met in my life have all had one thing in common, and that is that they were all shit rich and upper class. coincidence?

    there are different kids of capital, i found out, during my lunch break. my co-worker has a masters in socionomics, so within all probability and likelyhood, he got to use his shit expensive edumacation for the first and only time, and it goes kind of like this:

    super educated but not wealthy
    super rich but completely lacking in culture and education
    owns millions worth of land and machinery, runs own business but no culture
    no money but generations of culture and education
    etc etc

    the different kinds of capital gives you access to different vistas of power.

    because of this, the middle class is the most devious of all classes, as it divides into over 60 off-shoots such as:
    "lower middle class somewhat educated not cultured but crafty manual labour skilled and talented with a lute but sadly smothered in tallow and sand most of the time climbing masts"

    seems to me though, the only capital you need in the world, as it currently stands, is money.
    to get what you want and when, a shed load of money will do the trick.

    unless your ambition is to get into the "money club" of old-world privilege, you know the one where a membership actually means you may stop paying. at all, for anything, anywhere, ever, period. which, unless you were born or possibly married into it, demands ungodly amounts of nearly every other kind of capital than money.

    whats funny is even as someone who refuses the whole class thing, as soon as you meet someone from a lower class than you, its damn near impossible not to react by broadcasting this in every way possible, other than saying it out loud, and you dont have to say it out loud, peoples antennae are tuned to the max for this kind of thing, if you think yourself above someone for whatever reason, they will pick up on that almost quicker than a dropkick in the spleen. fuck i really have to keep that sort of thing in check, as smug is one of the ugliest things a human can be. out of all the things a human can be, smug is definitely top 3.

    but what is it about youngsters that get arrested for political activism and get to do three months in insolation cell before their trial sentencing them to maximum fine and a few months of community service, why are over 80% of them from economically independent families?
    what is it with the dude you meet on the trail in thailand whos been travelling the world for six years could cut off those dreads and get a high paid job in daddys company at any time?
    why are you mid thirties, dressed like youre 17, a total junkie alcoholic, with only sex drugs and rock and roll on your mind, bouncing from one shit job to another, one thing when your family is a long line of cultured, educated, very very rich people?
     
  9. Teddy

    Teddy 60% Staff Member

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    I have that condition where I hate myself but still think I'm better than everyone else.
    No idea which "class" I would fall into. This might help http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22000973

    "Technical middle class" - whatever the phantom menace that is? Technically I don't care.
     
  10. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

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    haha im exactly the same, fucking stoopid really
     
  11. Moskit

    Moskit :rodigan: Staff Member

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    Does middle class still exist in the uk?

    I guess you've got your shoreditch type "posh" whiteys that think they're middle class, but have to work a scummy 9-5 like the rest of us...

    I thought middle class & working class melded into the "we don't give a fuck just give us a payrise that mirrors inflation class" in the early 2000's?
     
  12. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    no no, i have the exact same,
    my reasoning for this goes
    there is no way anyone can be better than me, and im total and complete and utter shit,
    ergo, everyone is shit, and thats the sum total of it.

    and darkysidro if you read it again, the bit about judging peoples class by what they bought was really more about the english? unless you did read that correctly and think it applies to me too.

    ill tell you one thing that has been getting to me lately though, cars. i dont understand them, they are just rows of strange bubbles along the sides of the streets to me, theyre a fucking nuisance when youre in traffic, i hate the effect they have on the planet, the fossil fuel industry is monstrous, but everyone ive ever known that got one, along with their lisence and that of course, have all made a giant leap in their personal evolution. that leap is probably bigger when youre 17 though eh, at 48 the effect is probably not quite as severe
     
  13. Fortune^

    Fortune^ ( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°)

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    The BBC did that class test, however I find it to be rather broad brush and largely diversionary to the true system.

    The UK class system is largely based on family history, wealth, taste, manners and knowledge. These are all tied together through refinement.

    obviously other opinions are available. Whilst I could wax lyrical on the subject it boils down to one key concept. If you can appreciate why something is good, due to its complex concepts, techniques, ideals or construction methods I would say you have class (doesn't mean that everything that is complex is good, but rather that there must be a base admiration for time, effort and execution).

    Socially this relates to the arts - music, television, literature, drumfunk
    Financially this relates to the job you hold, the qualifications you have and the items - clothes, cars, material possessions you choose to spend your money on.

    obviously other opinions are available.
     
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  14. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    when I read your post, the thing that came to my mind is that classes have different characteristics from country to country. Let's try to give an example here, using the so called "big mac index": let's say you are hungry as hell, ans stop by a McDonald's to buy a Big Mac. How much you pay for it?
     
  15. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    come to think of it, darkysidro, youre right, i do bang on an awful lot about worldly things and possessions in my original post, but it is how class is measured, is it not?
    i think the equations goes
    profession plus family size minus income over living quality times education times culture squared?

    and the result is where your flat is located at, what car you drive, where your kids go to school, whom you vote for, job title, how many divorces, and criminal record.

    i could be wrong.
     
  16. RUSSLA

    RUSSLA DNBF Monarch

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    i'd love to spend a day in your brain

    - - - Updated - - -

    EDIT: Full homo
     
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  17. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    I don't think there's a mathematical formula for it. Well, actually, there is. As we have mathematical fomulas for everything, right? But I think that, for example, you can't say where a person lives, what car he/she/it drives, where he/she/it had been educated by only analizing how much of their income are spent on things.

    You see, as a middle class gentleman that I am (you can rule out the gentleman word, if you want), my parents had to spend their money to pay school for me, as public schools in Brazil are just shit. Now that I have my life, and family, I still have to pay for education, as public colleges are hell of difficult to enroll. You see the difference between Brazil and Sweden, for example? And this is just ONE of things that defines a middle class person.

    I drive a 2 year old Nissan March, but I had to get a loan at a bank to buy it, as my monthly income is compromised on other things.

    To make things short: a middle class everyday joe from europe is a high class here. And a middle class average joe here is a lower class in europe.
     
  18. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    haha when i was like 17 this buddy of mine, who as it turns out is full on batshit insane and is locked up in the looney bin these days, but you cant quite tell with teenagers, can you, he was always "different" and it made aloooot of sense when we found out hed been diagnosed and sectioned, but nobody suspected anything,

    when we were 17 we were sat at a cafe and it was great fun and fast times as things go in that age, but my buddy who wasnt used to the cafe life, the caffeine overdosing, the chain smoking and the lively stimulating conversation, was unusually quiet, plus he had a very high fever at the time. so to combat that and his social anxiety he took a truck load of codeine and paracetamol, downed it with coffee, and as the pillls lightened his mood, he began to speak, only the fever, insanity, and codeine, were all ragining in his system at that point, so when he finally speaks, he comes out with "i think i know what its like to be you now. you must feel like this all the time. i understand you now" before he fell over and we had to get him home.

    ill never quite forget that comment, he was utterly delerious, and thought thats what its like to be me, i.e in my brain. something about that always felt kind of off with me.
    this story goes on actually, i think ive told it before, his insanity drove him to olympian heights of sheer, well, insanity, but this is class discussion thread.
     
  19. Dark Lizardro

    Dark Lizardro The Lizard that has a hammer Staff Member

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    Holy shit, man. What was he diagnosed with? I mean, what mental condition did he have?
     
  20. rysk

    rysk Part-time waster

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    i try not to associate myself with a class, but the subject keeps coming up.

    If i had to classify myself and my direct family, i'd say we're lower middle class, but it's a weird one, as most members of my family had come from nothing and ended up with a lot.

    for example, my recently deceased great-grandfather comes from a family of bricklayers, but he ended up being a grocer, a butcher, a chauffeur and eventually a car salesmen... before opening a land rover garage and running that until he retired... a land rover garage that his own son managed to con him out of about 10 years ago and recently sold the business for £10,000,000. (he's a cunt and we don't talk to him).

    and my mum.. she had me at 16 years old, moved out of home and we lived in multiple council flats while she worked in fried chicken shops and pubs before starting work as a secretary, then eventually landed herself in the right company at the right time, they put her through university while she was working, and in 2012 got a job in the middle east earning £100,000 a year... she's now back here and on half that wage but still doing well for herself.

    and as for myself... i'm uneducated (on paper at least), skint, and working as a labourer... but i'm well spoken and know how to read... so lower middle class it is :teeth: