Cheating

Discussion in 'Production' started by Phat_Sam, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Phat_Sam

    Phat_Sam Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone feel like they're cheating when they layer breaks/samples?


    I've made loads of tunes recently where most of the breaks are made up mainly of pre-made ones that I've manipulated. Either that or I've just recycled them from earlier tunes that ive made.

    Can't help feeling that I've cheated and haven't really made the tune myself.


    Anyone know what I mean?
     
  2. MARKLAR

    MARKLAR International Tracksuit Salesman

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    i do this fairly often an i dont really see it as cheatin aslong as u change it up a fair bit.
    its your music at the end of the day an u can make it they way you want to
     
  3. jimjimjim

    jimjimjim oldskool

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    ^^^^ exactly that.
    its all just dots on a screen - you put the dots there that makes the sound etc - smoke a fat one and dont worry bout it :D
     
  4. Oria

    Oria Member

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    there is/was a youtube clip of some guy building prodigy smack my bitch up ... its all samples, so whilst i know exactly what you mean having programmed drum patterns hit by hit and also used drum break samples, but its the end product that counts, and whether people dig it or not, chin strokers may not but the rave may well. Generations of producers have based probably millions of hours of music around a 5 second drum pattern .... cutting, pasting, filtering, eqing and effects are massive parts of the last few decades. Make it whilst it sounds good, simples.
     
  5. moriaty

    moriaty Active Member

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    there's no such thing as cheating in music. the best samples in the world do not make a good tune by themselves. arranging premade loops with minimal processing can be as successful as making everything yourself with synths and tons of effects. no right or wrong, no cheating or striving, just different methods.
     
  6. Neomind

    Neomind Too many skulls!">:O

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    even the most minimal thing you think of, it's pre-made. When you use a "sample" it has been made/recorded by someone else before...
    even if you go and record yourself, you have a pre-made mic which is helping you recording with a pre-made computer. :p

    but...
    yes I've felt like you so many times and that's why I mostly refuse to use breaks, are no fun to me... no satisfaction :p
     
  7. subprime

    subprime Dysjoint

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    I need to take this on, as I pretty much feel like Phat Sam even though I know I shouldn't.

    I'm trying to convince myself that 'if it sounds good it is good'

    That prodigy video was awesome and did help me start shifting my point of view
     
  8. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    Yeah - don't worry about it. The end product counts, not the way you do it. In fact, dnb needs simpler production standards anyway, it's become so hung up on production values that it's starting to get ridiculous.
     
  9. TeeHaichCee

    TeeHaichCee Proh-Deuce-Ah

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Its all about being creative.

    I use percussive loops, and drumloops fairly often. I look at it this way; I can quite easily load a drum machine, load hits into each slot, adjust pitchs, fx, volumes etc for each hit, sequence said hits into a drum pattern.....or I can save a fuckload of time and use a loop that works perfectly. I KNOW I have the skills to be able to make my own loops (hell I do it all the time) but sometimes a pre made loop fits the bill.

    The only time I think using pre made samples to make tracks is lame, is when the only originality comes from arranging said samples into a tune, but all the samples are 4 bar music loops, percussion loops, drum loops, etc....that to me is cheating.

    I was discussing this with a friend of mine only last night.

    There's this dude called Toolbox, or Modu who has quite a few tracks up on youtube. but upon opening his tracks, you'll notice that all of the musical / synth aspects, are just 4 bar loops from really popular sample packs. It sounds like he's used magix music maker or an old version of acid to slap a few long samples together, then call it his own :-S
     
  10. RevTech

    RevTech Butthole=output transduce

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    nice sig man :D

    But anyways, I don't like to "cheat" at music just for that fact of my pride really. Sometimes I do cheat and use premade loops but that is all just for messing around and I never make a full song like that. I'd like to think, once I got everything down making everything myself, then I've learnt that much more and I could resort to whatever way of making music i.e. using loops.
     
  11. Phat_Sam

    Phat_Sam Well-Known Member

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    PHE-FUCKING-EWH!

    I thought I was the only one. Not that I like using samples, it just seems to be the way that I work. To be honest I seem to be going with the whole "If it feels(/sounds) good, fuck it!" approach.

    Thank you guys... you've put my mind at ease!
     
  12. kama

    kama benkama.net

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    yeah but to be fair using those ejay/magix music maker loops that all fit together, that would be a bit cheating tho.
     
  13. Phat_Sam

    Phat_Sam Well-Known Member

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    hahaha. i may be crap... but im not THAT bad
     
  14. RevTech

    RevTech Butthole=output transduce

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    hhaha true that
     
  15. Kaz1983

    Kaz1983 Member

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    I felt like you -still do, regarding the use of pre-set drum loops and what not, trying to change that after I read this post though...

    From DOA

    - My advice - and I only wish I'd taken this with music when I was young - is to start out focusing 100% on the product; not the method.

    Get in the habit of making releasable music from day one. Scrap the ego, which needs to do everything the *long* way and have total control. Ego is the biggest obstacle for you getting anywhere. (Ego is what stops you taking criticism the right way.)

    'Cheat', basically. The best place to be in, if your aim is to be a record producer, is to learn your whole craft while you're actually releasing records. THAT's how you learn to be a record producer. Not by practicing how to make demos. The two are polar opposites. You can focus on methods and twisting the formula later on.


    http://www.dogsonacid.com/showthread.php?postid=9937697&highlight=practice#post9937697

    -some fucking good posts in that thread.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2010
  16. TeeHaichCee

    TeeHaichCee Proh-Deuce-Ah

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    They talk a lot of sense on doa apparently. That sounds like a whole lot of sense to me.
    I used to be a bit of a purist in the old days (circa 1994) but I learnt that there's not really any such thing as 'cheating'. It's about making a track that goes off, not about how you made it. Only people like us care how it was made, your average punter just wants the music to sound good. Regardless of what samples are
    used...unfortunately.
    Look at half Of the American hip hop out there!!! Most of us in here could make those sort of beats with both hands tied behind our backs! Bet there's not a whole lot of technicality involved in it.
     
  17. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    the dam nation work ethic is all about crate digging and recording the most original sounds, this ensures our sound. we do make things ridiculously over complicated for ourselves but for the artist the method does matter and when you get the feeling youre cheating its your work ethic aching over something that doesnt sit right. wether its the the product that matters over the method or not isnt a very interesting discussion i feel, as for me, the artist the method does matter and for the listener it does not. so who am i i writing my music for or why or what
     
  18. richie_stix

    richie_stix gomby plz

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    were prodigy 'cheating'?



    but i thought this was going to be one of them threads about doing the dirty and feeling guilty... :(
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2015
  19. logikz

    logikz I Am Not The King Staff Member

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    not cheating, his whole style of production is based around creative use of clever samples. he never claimed to be a sample purist at all, lots of old rave and uk hardcore ripped each other off all the time, it was part of the aesthetic of that era
     
  20. richie_stix

    richie_stix gomby plz

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    is this aimed at my post? don't really get what your saying (but then i'm used to that with your posts!), all i was saying is some major tunes of our time 'cheated' by using breaks.