acoustics

Discussion in 'Production' started by pete_c, Sep 27, 2011.

  1. pete_c

    pete_c New Member

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    EZ

    ive been producing, or trying to for going on 2 years now, and i kind of feel like im getting nowhere fast, ive read endless pages on forums like this about production and feel as if i have a pretty good knowledge of what i should be doing, but my tunes just dont seem to have enough umph!

    im using a set of rokit KRK 6s, but i find its difficult to tell whether the levels and eq are correct, because they sound quite flat when im sitting infront of the computer, with both speakers at roughly 60 degree angles to me. i find when i move back, there is noticeably a lot more bass/low frequencies especially when ive got my back right to the oposing wall. also the room is a funny shape, kind of like an L shape, and my set up is not in the centre of the room because of this.

    do you think this will be affecting the mixdown, or is it just me??? would i better moving my set up into a symetrical rectangular room? also, the speakers are facing a wall with windows, covered by blinds, could that be affecting my monitoring? total noob when it comes to acoustics so any advice would be much appreciated!
     
  2. jimjimjim

    jimjimjim oldskool

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    hmm well if you get more bass when you move back then yer something is not right.
    I'm no expert so will just wait for some of the audio guru's to post their thoughts on this.
    peace.
     
  3. pete_c

    pete_c New Member

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    yeah i find that there is more fullness to the low freq's when i move to the edges/corners of the room...
     
  4. Innovine

    Innovine Active Member

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    Put on some bass heavy music and slowly walk around the room. Listen for the level of bass, in some places I bet you will find it loud, and in others, totally gone.

    This is caused when bass sound waves reflect from the walls, and in some places they overlap and make doube the bass, and in others they cancel out and you hear nothin. It'll happen at specific frequencies depending on the size/geometry of the room. You can improve the situation a lot by building bass traps and installing them in the corners. This should reduce the problem substantially, while not costing all that much. Usually people just pour more and more money into more expensive monitors or new synths, when all the time it's the room accustics that need a few hundred quid to straighten out.

    If you are only producing tracks for your own enjoyment, or at an amateur level, then just sit where it sounds good and leave it at that. A flat frequency response is only useful when you're ready to distribute your work.
     
  5. pete_c

    pete_c New Member

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    ok, its just ive read that you should position the monitors in a equalateral triangle position, but u say im better to just sit where ever it sounds best and work there?
     
  6. Innovine

    Innovine Active Member

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    Yes, you should have the monitors set up in an equilateral triangle, (and also oriented vertically, not on their sides which is a common mistake). But your head may be sitting right in the middle of a shitty bass-cancellation spot. So moving the whole triangle a couple of feet is required, not just moving your listening position. But this is to compensate for room accoustics and is not solving the real problem which is your room accoustics. Bean bags piled up in the corners, or proper rockwool bass traps should go a long way to even out the inconsistant bass.

    I'd recommend going through loads of Sound on Sound magazine backissues and read their studio SOS articles. They visit small and bedroom studios and give loads of advice on improving the sound.
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  7. richie_stix

    richie_stix gomby plz

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    just like to point out, i make tunes on a sony hi-fi, speakers are on the floor... and room is well reflective, but i can still get my mixes sounding pretty decent (with a proper set up im sure it would be better)... its about knwoing your speakers / environment, toko me about 2 moths to adjst once i moved in, lol!

    cars, headphones & monitors, listen on all the things you can (these are my fav 3) and see how the mix sounds on all, you'll get used to it!
     
  8. pete_c

    pete_c New Member

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    yeah my mixdowns always sound different when played in the car or on a different hi fi, not as full sounding, just wasnt sure whether the shape of my room was affecting it. i think u are right about the bass cancellation spot, will try moving the speakers about see if i can find a better spot. thanks for the advise!
     
  9. druu

    druu Member

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    If you want to get more into tuning your room/setup, you'll need a measurement mic (Behringer ECM8000 is great value mic that a lot of professionals use) and some measurement software (Room EQ Wizard is free or FuzzMeasure if you're on a mac.

    First and foremost is to find a base starting point for your speaker location:

    Room Width x 0.276 = speaker to side wall distance
    Room Width x 0.447 = speaker to rear wall distance
    Room Width x 0.724 = speaker to opposing side wall distance
    Room Width x 0.447 = speaker to speaker distance = speaker to listening/measurement point

    Measurements to/from speaker are at the woofer. Also note that you need the woofers to be AT LEAST 120cm from the floor - this is critical to flatten out the most common '~100hz' null you'll discover when measuring your room (more common in smaller rooms). Of course, symmetry is also critical so make sure everything is spot on and you follow the 60 degree triangle for your listening point.

    Once you've done this, you'll probably find you won't have much bass response. To counter this, move your speakers towards the front wall. A distance of up to 1m from the front wall is acceptable or a minimum distance of 5cm from the wall to the enclosure is better for smaller speakers/rooms. Measure and test each time.

    When measuring, make sure the mic is in line with the tweeter and also be sure to use a calibration file if you use the ECM8000 which will flatten out the curve before taking measurements and give you more accurate readings. These can be downloaded off the net, etc.

    If you can't be bothered with all that, at least do the room width calculations to find the speaker locations then move them as close to the front wall as you can (5cm/2" to allow proper cooling for the amp on the rear) and 120cm off the floor and be done with it. This is all done before acoustic treatment, once you've found the flattest possible locations, treatment will only improve the situation.

    Here's my last measurement, no mic calibration (using a regular condenser mic without calibration which tend to have a high end slope).

    [​IMG]

    The 100hz null is very difficult to flatten out but it's the best i could get without installing more bass traps into the room (but no available space). Though with my current setup I have no need to test my mixes anymore, they translate very, very well for me onto other systems. I use Yamaha HS80M's.

    HTH.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2011