Drums sound weird with no limiter on master track

Recently I thought it would be wise to start mixing without limiter on the master and immediately I ran into one interesting problem. My drums sound veeeeery pushed and loud(exaggerated in lack of better word) compared to rest of the track without limiter on master but whenever I stick one it balances everything out and drums are not loud anymore(in fact drums tend to disappear in other elements). Anyone know where the dog is buried?

Additional question: when I sidechain kick to the sub(or sidechain in general) I get really weird movements and it ruins the flow a lot, it doesn´t sound natural. Is it just me sidechaining wrong or there is another reason? These weird movements are more prominent during the mastering stage, improper limiting/mastering unveils them but I usually can mask them but then again my tracks will not sound as loud because I sacrifice loudness for better flow.

Quotec said:

Recently I thought it would be wise to start mixing without limiter on the master and immediately I ran into one interesting problem. My drums sound veeeeery pushed and loud(exaggerated in lack of better word) compared to rest of the track without limiter on master but whenever I stick one it balances everything out and drums are not loud anymore(in fact drums tend to disappear in other elements). Anyone know where the dog is buried?

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Perhaps this is a stupid answer, but perhaps you asked a stupid question.... how about you try turning your drums down?

Turning them down results in "nonexistent" drums with limiter on.

Try using compression rather than limiting. You need to retain some of the transients in order for it to cut through. I use overdrive a lot and sometimes the drums sound good on their own but won't cut through once the rest of the elements are introduced. If that's the case then I'll probably stick an expander on the drum master and lower any reverb that may push the drums further back into the mix.

Why don't ou try mixing the song without the limiter and once the things are properly set up you stick the limiter for the loudness you want?

Watch the Break production video and he essentially explains this.

Theres this thing called gain staging, which is known as the main aspect of mixing. Try taking all you limiters off (which definitely shouldnt be on from the start) because theyre meant to be on at the end of the chain, and using only the channel faders to balance things.

Where in the hell did you learn to push everything into a limiter before you mix?

this is how you get mars bar waveforms

[MENTION=92349]Mania[/MENTION]


We were all stupid at some point. I´ve been mixing into a limiter for ages just because I had no idea it´s the wrong approach.

[MENTION=18384]Riisu[/MENTION]

I did and it turns out that it´s even kinda natural to have your snares hit hard before limiting as they are going to be compressed the most during mastering. The rest of the seminar was quite a money waste...

as far as your question about sidechaining the sub, it sounds like the attack /release times on your compressor need to be tuned, probably to lower settings.