View Full Version : Vinyl vs. digital
dnbk0d3fr33k
14-07-2006, 22:58
why would you use a vinyl as opposed to a cd turntable
deadaelus
14-07-2006, 23:52
well that is a really giant question...cause arguements toward both sides have their merrits.
I can tell you that i prefer vinyl.
I like the look of vinyl, the smell of vinyl, and of course the rich sound of vinyl. I believe that mixing vinyl is a much more challenging but rewarding feat for both DJ's and clubfolk alike. You hear everything with vinyl, its raw. If the mix slides a little outta control, people can notice cause the pitch of the tune wobbles. (Some CD mixers have a pitch waiver control, so that the digital encoder inside the CD player smooths out the wobbles so you dont hear them.) The important thing about hearing these wobbles is hearing the DJ respond and edit and correct the sounds you are hearing, no DJ is perfect.
Another big reason i like vinyl is that it is visual. People can see you switch tracks, stop the record, and preform precision cuts & scratches. People are drawn to what the DJ is doing, and playing vinyl allows others to see what is going on. I know turntablism is not everybodies style of music, but i believe that most people appreciate turntablism for the art, precision and difficulty of the skills preformed. Scratching can be applied to all styles of music and is really the pinacle of DJing. Have you ever seen someone Beat Juggle 2 records? Lets see someone do that on a CD mixer, i gaurantee it is not as impressive.
The last and most important reason i like vinyl, is cause the artists retain a bigger profit on the sale of their music. The was an article on the forum a while back discussing how much producers get paid on a per record basis, and some artists get paid as much as a Pound per record sold. How much does that producer get paid when you yank his tracks of soulseek (in my opinion it is these people who are destroying the scene. If your gonna play CDs pay for your downloads)
Dj SmurFiE
15-07-2006, 14:15
well that is a really giant question...cause arguements toward both sides have their merrits.
I can tell you that i prefer vinyl.
I like the look of vinyl, the smell of vinyl, and of course the rich sound of vinyl. I believe that mixing vinyl is a much more challenging but rewarding feat for both DJ's and clubfolk alike. You hear everything with vinyl, its raw. If the mix slides a little outta control, people can notice cause the pitch of the tune wobbles. (Some CD mixers have a pitch waiver control, so that the digital encoder inside the CD player smooths out the wobbles so you dont hear them.) The important thing about hearing these wobbles is hearing the DJ respond and edit and correct the sounds you are hearing, no DJ is perfect.
Another big reason i like vinyl is that it is visual. People can see you switch tracks, stop the record, and preform precision cuts & scratches. People are drawn to what the DJ is doing, and playing vinyl allows others to see what is going on. I know turntablism is not everybodies style of music, but i believe that most people appreciate turntablism for the art, precision and difficulty of the skills preformed. Scratching can be applied to all styles of music and is really the pinacle of DJing. Have you ever seen someone Beat Juggle 2 records? Lets see someone do that on a CD mixer, i gaurantee it is not as impressive.
The last and most important reason i like vinyl, is cause the artists retain a bigger profit on the sale of their music. The was an article on the forum a while back discussing how much producers get paid on a per record basis, and some artists get paid as much as a Pound per record sold. How much does that producer get paid when you yank his tracks of soulseek (in my opinion it is these people who are destroying the scene. If your gonna play CDs pay for your downloads)
'amen' to that! :dynamite:
ill get my coat.....................
do agree with ya 100% though.
Can I get a :note: on that - why I appreciate (and prefer) vinyl over digital, regardless of all the many rambling discussions about quality, perceived and actual, is that vinyl DJing is a much more visual thing - it engages the audience whereas CDJing... You pop the CD in, you wait for it to load (and occasionally it won't, what happens then? you're fucked, no chance of a quick mix :D), and then if you have your cuepoints set up, you jump to em and hit play... Bingo.
Just not as visually involving, which is half of what DJing is all about. If DJing was just about mixing tunes together anonymously for someone, the DJ booth would be tucked away in the corner of the room - it's the focal point for a dance, everyone looks towards it, so go figure that if what the DJ's doing isn't interesting to watch, how do you expect the crowd to get involved and get fired up?
edit: post number 404! :geek:
Can I get a :note: on that - why I appreciate (and prefer) vinyl over digital, regardless of all the many rambling discussions about quality, perceived and actual, is that vinyl DJing is a much more visual thing - it engages the audience whereas CDJing... You pop the CD in, you wait for it to load (and occasionally it won't, what happens then? you're fucked, no chance of a quick mix :D), and then if you have your cuepoints set up, you jump to em and hit play... Bingo.
and then you pitch-chase the tune until it's running smoothly with the tune that's playing currently and mix it in. it's the exact same visually as pitch chasing a record except you don't see the record rotating. i don't understand how people can go on the visual thing as an argument of vinyl over digital.
Well that's it - you've hit the nail on the head, at least in the respect of the visual difference. You look at a DJ working, you can see the records turning, you can see everything they do with their hands, their body, it's really quite organic to watch if you have a DJ who's confident in what he does. I've noticed that with a lot of DJs who use CDJs at gigs, they tend to stand more in one place, or move around less - it becomes like studio mixing. You can't do this at a live event, cause part of the DJ's job aside from just laying down the beats is to get the crowd going (watch andy c when he's on form for classic examples of this, he really interacts with the crowd and they appreciate that - and reciprocate by taking the energy levels up).
With a CDJ, you as a dj might be able to to see the icon rotating or the pseudo-platter rotating if you have the Technics cdj... But to the audience, for all intents and purpose you're just hitting start and then tapping a few buttons, flicking a little rotating wheel around every so often. CDJs, imo, are generally regarded as having greatly reduced the 'visual flair' element of a DJ's set - there's something incredibly tactile, even if you're just in the audience, with watching a DJ put together a mix, dropping the needle, working teh decks and the equipment - whereas with CDJ, even if the DJ is working just as hard, it still feels a bit like a cop out.
It's really hard to put my finger on exactly how to describe the difference, but I for one always feel a bit shortchanged somehow if a DJ is only exclusively using CDJs - and I totally understand that mixing with CDJs can be just as challenging as with vinyl. (And this is discounting all the other arguments about why DJs, especially producers, should be using vinyl if they want to practice what they preach about selling copies to the punters in the shops, one standard for them and another for us etc etc)... You know what I mean?
There's just 'something about vinyl' which CDs can't live up to. CDs are just so nondescript to me, whereas a vinyl, you pick it up, it's big in your hands, you can literally see the music on it, its a contact back to the music's earliest beginnings, and its influences and inspirations in turn right back to the reggae, soul, acid house movements... I think it may also be the link to the past which some people aren't quite ready to mourn the passing of yet, including myself. long live 12"s! :D
I dont think you should have to explain why you find watching a DJ spin records more interesting than one spinning CDs. It is what it is, and many people feel this way. And as DJ I know I enjoy mixing vinyl more, because I'm a tactile person.
I would qualify this by saying my two favourite Australian DJs spin huge amounts on CD, maybe half/half. I have a feeling if they lived in the UK they'd be cutting more to plate though.
and then you pitch-chase the tune until it's running smoothly with the tune that's playing currently and mix it in. it's the exact same visually as pitch chasing a record except you don't see the record rotating. i don't understand how people can go on the visual thing as an argument of vinyl over digital.
I agree, especially since the time code gives you a lot more precise info on what is going to happen and when, rather than the vinyl grooves (which you often can't see unless you set lamps up).
As far as enjoying seeing a vinyl dj play more is concerned, its because audiences are used to vinyl.
In twenty years time they'll be wondering what those big black circles, that some weird djs use, are.
Cds give me a little bit more time to fiddle with the eqs and chain events than when I'm playing vinyl and definitely do not need require more skill (need less)... just need getting used to it. Personally I take end result over the skill needed to achieve it any day. If the floor is pumping and cheese is not being melted, rock on.
mixing with vinyl is just more fun.
and no Dustek, in 20 years time, people will still know what those big black circle thingies are, coz there still gonna be nuts like me to buy them..
peace
Well that's it - you've hit the nail on the head, at least in the respect of the visual difference. You look at a DJ working, you can see the records turning, you can see everything they do with their hands, their body, it's really quite organic to watch if you have a DJ who's confident in what he does. I've noticed that with a lot of DJs who use CDJs at gigs, they tend to stand more in one place, or move around less - it becomes like studio mixing. You can't do this at a live event, cause part of the DJ's job aside from just laying down the beats is to get the crowd going (watch andy c when he's on form for classic examples of this, he really interacts with the crowd and they appreciate that - and reciprocate by taking the energy levels up).
With a CDJ, you as a dj might be able to to see the icon rotating or the pseudo-platter rotating if you have the Technics cdj... But to the audience, for all intents and purpose you're just hitting start and then tapping a few buttons, flicking a little rotating wheel around every so often. CDJs, imo, are generally regarded as having greatly reduced the 'visual flair' element of a DJ's set - there's something incredibly tactile, even if you're just in the audience, with watching a DJ put together a mix, dropping the needle, working teh decks and the equipment - whereas with CDJ, even if the DJ is working just as hard, it still feels a bit like a cop out.
It's really hard to put my finger on exactly how to describe the difference, but I for one always feel a bit shortchanged somehow if a DJ is only exclusively using CDJs - and I totally understand that mixing with CDJs can be just as challenging as with vinyl. (And this is discounting all the other arguments about why DJs, especially producers, should be using vinyl if they want to practice what they preach about selling copies to the punters in the shops, one standard for them and another for us etc etc)... You know what I mean?
There's just 'something about vinyl' which CDs can't live up to. CDs are just so nondescript to me, whereas a vinyl, you pick it up, it's big in your hands, you can literally see the music on it, its a contact back to the music's earliest beginnings, and its influences and inspirations in turn right back to the reggae, soul, acid house movements... I think it may also be the link to the past which some people aren't quite ready to mourn the passing of yet, including myself. long live 12"s! :D
actually, the only reason why i've noticed a lot of dj's who play on cdj's to be a little less ... into it ... is they're mostly producers rather than dj's. when i've seen the pro dj's use cdj's they go just as crazy.
any dj who's touching the platter a lot on the cdj's is the same dj who would touch the platter a lot on a pair of technics, something i don't associate with being a very good dj. so in that case, the only real difference would be not visually being able to see the record and inserting a cd rather than dropping the needle.
i just find it funny that the format of music that a dj is using really matters to some people. i'd rather be able to hear someone play some fresh new tunes they just finished than watch a piece of plastic rotating.
for me, D&B and vinyl is like fish and chips - they go together, and having one without the other is never quite the same. As one member of the Tory party said in the house of commons when TV cameras were introduced for the first time, "I'm all for progress as long as it doesn't mean change" :D :D :D - but seriously, it seems a bit hypocritical really when labels are pushing vinyl and decrying the fall in vinyl sales when label owners and producers who release on those labels can be seen week in, week out, DJing from CDJ (and in the case of some, but thankfully a minority, exclusively using CDJs).
I can appreciate that it's hard to lug round several hundred records if you're going abroad, but at least take 40 or so, those fit in hand luggage, and a wallet of CDs will do nicely, but people like John B (and Tech Itch (!) from a set I saw a little while back) spring to mind immediately, as they use(d) exclusively CDs to mix... Now mister tech itch, you'd like me to go buy your £5 a pop vinyls when they come out in the shop, which I'll happily do... But oh wait, so you're doing this set using only CD? Why should I bother buying your vinyls if you can't be bothered to promote the very format you're releasing your tunes on?
actually, the only reason why i've noticed a lot of dj's who play on cdj's to be a little less ... into it ... is they're mostly producers rather than dj's. when i've seen the pro dj's use cdj's they go just as crazy.
any dj who's touching the platter a lot on the cdj's is the same dj who would touch the platter a lot on a pair of technics, something i don't associate with being a very good dj. so in that case, the only real difference would be not visually being able to see the record and inserting a cd rather than dropping the needle.
i just find it funny that the format of music that a dj is using really matters to some people. i'd rather be able to hear someone play some fresh new tunes they just finished than watch a piece of plastic rotating.
Its a visual thing, but not based around people going crazy and excitable behind the decks for me. I know what you mean about producers, but I dont rate most of them as DJs anyway and Im not realy talking about them.
I also think the ease with which people can play CDs is great, but quality control becomes an issue, and its hard to argue that increase cd playing isnt linked to increased piracy.
ed fiasco
21-07-2006, 00:07
Now mister tech itch, you'd like me to go buy your £5 a pop vinyls when they come out in the shop, which I'll happily do... But oh wait, so you're doing this set using only CD? Why should I bother buying your vinyls if you can't be bothered to promote the very format you're releasing your tunes on?
i reckon he would be just as happy if you went to tune tribe and bought his tunes there as an mp3 download (without disributers and records shops taking their cut he makes about the same). i also reckon he is quite pleased to save the £50 a pop it used to cost him to have dubs cut.
i love vinyl. but let's not let nostalgia cloud us. i go to see a dj to HEAR what they do, not to watch them find a cue point on a vinyl record (the only 'visual' difference i can think of). cdjs mean producers can make a tune/vip that afternoon and then go and play it out that night without spending much moolah at a dub cutting studio.
I also think the ease with which people can play CDs is great, but quality control becomes an issue, and its hard to argue that increase cd playing isnt linked to increased piracy.
it's pretty hard to (effectively) argue that it is linked to increased piracy as well.
Fes Rock
24-07-2006, 00:13
ehh...It just sux!!! all of us vinyl whores who own original presses, now can find the tune on Limewire or Aquisistion?:mad2:
Raping the vinyl industry!!:-x
You think ppl care what they own...vinyl or digi? :shades:
To be honest, I don't think mp3s on the p2p are really affecting sales half as much as what struggling labels would like to have us think.
There is an enormous amount of SHITE out atm, moreso than in the past imo, and the labels would have us believe that it's just p2p sharing which is damaging sales? Hah, yeah, whatever.
I think that some countries wouldn't have half as much of a d&b industry and scene had it not been for the Internet helping to spread the sounds and the fresh tracks to the further parts of Europe, the East in particular (Russia, Estonia, Latvia, places like that).
The real problem, and the one which has been discussed over and over, time and time again, is the plethora of DJs who profit from playing out illegal stuff on CD which they've just downloaded off the web or p2p, it's almost setting a precedent for others to continue to do it, and it's absolutely disrespectful and quite arrogant - biting the hand that feeds them. They need to be sorted out sharpish.
Like any industry, the D&B industry will have its lean years, and its resurgence... Plus you have to factor in the ever-rising cost of living, inflation, all sorts of things. It's never as simple as some would have you believe.
it's pretty hard to (effectively) argue that it is linked to increased piracy as well.
Its absolutely linked to increased piracy. Digitised music can be infinitely replicated and distributed at high quality thru filesharing and DLing.
This music can then easily be burnt and spun on CD decks by eager DJs who dont have authorisation, a situtation that would extremely rarely have happened in the 1990s (for example).
Motive, means, method, all there. I am not arguing CD DJing is the CAUSE of piracy, but if you think they arent strongly linked you've got your head in the sand.
I notice you have qualified your statement by saying its hard to effectively argue, so I am assuming you'll dismiss my argument out of hand.
:fag:
Don't forget, back in t' day when this tinterweb weren't around, and I were but a nipper, DJs still cut other producers' dubs without asking their permission first, so piracy as a concept in the D&B scene isn't strictly confined to the 21st century ;)
Don't forget, back in t' day when this tinterweb weren't around, and I were but a nipper, DJs still cut other producers' dubs without asking their permission first, so piracy as a concept in the D&B scene isn't strictly confined to the 21st century ;)
oh yeah, perfectly aware of that man, but how can you even compare that to what can happen to now, where every wannabe DJ on the freakin planet can do the same thing.? No matter where they live, or what connections.
I said it happened extremely rarely, and in comparison with today's situtation, I stand by that.
its ok to.. use cdj's when u r just slippin a dub or a tune from the studio u wanna test on occasions.
ie a tune that u have downloaded that u shudant ave..
but vinyl is still no1..
deadaelus
25-07-2006, 01:17
actually, the only reason why i've noticed a lot of dj's who play on cdj's to be a little less ... into it ... is they're mostly producers rather than dj's.
any dj who's touching the platter a lot on the cdj's is the same dj who would touch the platter a lot on a pair of technics, something i don't associate with being a very good dj. so in that case, the only real difference would be not visually being able to see the record and inserting a cd rather than dropping the needle.
i just find it funny that the format of music that a dj is using really matters to some people. i'd rather be able to hear someone play some fresh new tunes they just finished than watch a piece of plastic rotating.
I have a bit of a three part response to this...
1.) If you are a big producer that is booked to play shows over a span of time, like a month or two months, and you are flying in from stop to stop. It is smart to play CD's. I have heard of record boxes & bags going "missing" on airline flights, all too regularly. People can ID a record box, it has a distintive look. Think of how much you could sell the contents of the box on Ebay for? Even a retard is smart enough to jack something worth so much.
2.) I agree touching the platter is juvenial and not to mention it sounds bad. But it still is visual. I have a friend that has a Denon-S5000, and you can mix 2 tracks off the same CD together. This does look boring. Not to mention the pitch slide is VERY touchy and most DJs dont use it to mix. They would use the + / - buttons to edit a loose mix. This also looks boring. (i have to say i am with mesh on this that CD's are OK as long as the set includes Vinyl as well. This way you can play the Hot Hot Hot unreleased material with the classics on wax) Dont forget that a CD mixer is in a void if you want to explore the art of Turntablism. I know you can make a shitty little wak baby scratch on a CD mixer, but it is what it is and i really dont care what anyone says THIS SOUNDS BAD. Turntable technique is full of diversity and almost all the basic scratches utilize the features of a turntable. (i'd like to see someone do a scribble sratch 2 click flare on a CD mixer. Or how bout some needle drops?)
3.) Format does matter, for the sole purpose of supporting the artist. I know uncle Tee has made at least 50 GBP of of royalties on the sale of each subtitles release (which i proudly own the entire catalogue on wax). Not to mention the double royalty on the sales of his singles on his label. How much would Teebee earn if i just went and gaffed the shit off soulseek? Or if i had a spine and felt bad about kickin the man in the nuts like that and went to Beatport and paid for each single .mp3 that i actually wanted (keeping in mind that i could really widdle the amount of tracks i buy cause most records are pressed with a good tune and a weaker tune on the flip)
Needless to say this is a really interesting thread, with a multitude of valuable input from all participants.
:rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer: :rslayer:
Well..
Steve Carr is my favorite DNB artist however the format of Vinyl is much cooler then Steve because its a medium to which you can buy, hold, and listen to music on. Steve Carr is simply an artist out of millions that have released music on to Vinyl.
In closing, Vinyl is the winner.
3.) Format does matter, for the sole purpose of supporting the artist. I know uncle Tee has made at least 50 GBP of of royalties on the sale of each subtitles release (which i proudly own the entire catalogue on wax). Not to mention the double royalty on the sales of his singles on his label. How much would Teebee earn if i just went and gaffed the shit off soulseek? Or if i had a spine and felt bad about kickin the man in the nuts like that and went to Beatport and paid for each single .mp3 that i actually wanted (keeping in mind that i could really widdle the amount of tracks i buy cause most records are pressed with a good tune and a weaker tune on the flip)
yeah, but those of us who want the artists to sell mp3's are stuck here paying too much for a dying format. it costs me pretty much $20 for a 12" in my town and it's usually just for one song. or i can download an mp3 for $2 or the a full quality WAV for $4. i know what i'd rather do.
and, yes, i actually do prefer the sound quality & the tactile feeling of vinyl. i just prefer to be given a choice of formats.
ed fiasco
25-07-2006, 20:57
piracy is not the fault of cdjs or the djs that choose to use them with 'honour'. IMO file sharing and vinyl vs digiatl are seperate issues.
piracy is not the fault of cdjs or the djs that choose to use them with 'honour'. IMO file sharing and vinyl vs digiatl are seperate issues.
Of course its not their bloody fault, and can we get away from simple cause and effect thinking here? I'm saying they're related issues, if you can't see that your an idiot
Of course its not their bloody fault, and can we get away from simple cause and effect thinking here? I'm saying they're related issues, if you can't see that your an idiot
not to be too much of an idiot, but who really cares if they're linked to increased piracy? the easiest way to defeat that link would be to have labels release everything on cd / mp3 / wav as well as vinyl from now on, giving us a choice. then the people who like to hoard their vinyl could do so and the dj's who "sorta want that track but not if it's gonna cost me $20" could buy an mp3 of it and be able to play it once in a while.
** EDIT ** just in case it's not obvious, i'm quite against dj's who download, burn & play. if you haven't bought a song or you haven't been given it by someone who's allowed to give it you, don't play it. period.
not to be too much of an idiot, but who really cares if they're linked to increased piracy? the easiest way to defeat that link would be to have labels release everything on cd / mp3 / wav as well as vinyl from now on, giving us a choice. then the people who like to hoard their vinyl could do so and the dj's who "sorta want that track but not if it's gonna cost me $20" could buy an mp3 of it and be able to play it once in a while.
** EDIT ** just in case it's not obvious, i'm quite against dj's who download, burn & play. if you haven't bought a song or you haven't been given it by someone who's allowed to give it you, don't play it. period.
I agree, and I think the option to buy digital formats is a partial solution to piracy. That would at least solve the problem of having the option to play released digital material, something every DJ should have.
That doesn't solve the problem of people being able to spin digital 'dubs' that they shouldnt have, but have got off slsk or the like.
You ask 'who cares if they're linked to increased piracy?'
Ask any producer.
To quote Khal's excellent interview with Krust:
"The Internet is here to help. We just haven’t figured out how to use it properly and get the most out of it. People want music and they're gonna get it anyway they can. We have to work out the best way to get it to the people in the best way and still make a living. What’s happening now is, we're not in control of the distribution of our music on the web so we have a problem."
http://rockthedub.blogspot.com/2006/07/rock-dub-interview-dj-krust.html
Plus, I care.
Flatmatt
29-07-2006, 08:59
2 words; Anologue Bass! don't get me wrong, the digital revolution is providing excellent oportunities to be a bit more creative, i'm saving up for a pair of DNS5000's to go with the pair of TTX1's i'm also saving up for (need to get a bank loan!) and the idea of being able to mix 6 tracks together is an attractive one - especially since i mix a bit of techno aswell! The problem is that if we start to rely on digi technology then we're gonna lose the beautiful sound you get from vinyl. Sure, there's CD players like the Vestax CDX05 which has a filter to make it sound like vinyl, but let's face it, it's just not the same! again, i have to agree with many of the posts in this thread that, although there are plenty of CD players out there that claim to have a scratch function, every damn one i've tried has been bollocks except for the Numark CDX problem with that is that the sound quality is crap! Although, again the Vestax CDX05 looks interesting as it has an optional controller (Tascam TTM1) that clips onto your turntable and the platter can be used to control the CD meaning that a turntablism trick can be performed, on a turntable but playing a CD! Reckon this needs to be tried out! Then again, why would you want to scratch a CD when all scratch tools are on vinyl anyways. I post on the DJmag forum aswell and this topic has been under discussion many a time and although everyone agrees vinyl is better, the question keeps getting asked. IMO it's being asked because vinyl purists are starting to see that a change to digital is becoming inevitable, and they don't want it to happen! Problem there is that eventually (and i mean in decades not years) vinyl is going to become entirely obsolete. i for one, will be very sad when that day comes........LONG LIVE VINYL!!
Crudbucketeer
19-08-2006, 03:18
The question is also, which side of this arguement does timecoded vinyl technology fall into? (e.g. Final Scratch, Serrato Scratch etc). Because you still get the visuals and feeling of vinyl....but using a digital music collection 8-O .
Obviously people argue that due to latency and processing speed high-speed scratch moves would be very difficult to acheive here, and surely mixing would be made harder. I haven't tried this out myself, however I have seen a video which *appears* to show a scratch DJ (getdown) using this technology with no problems.
http://www.virtualdj.com/download/virtualdj_by_dj_getdown.wmv
Personally, i feel that this technology, if it works, is a good compromise, because you still get the feeling and looks of using vinyl, but without having to carry around stacks of records.
The question is also, which side of this arguement does timecoded vinyl technology fall into? (e.g. Final Scratch, Serrato Scratch etc). Because you still get the visuals and feeling of vinyl....but using a digital music collection 8-O .
Obviously people argue that due to latency and processing speed high-speed scratch moves would be very difficult to acheive here, and surely mixing would be made harder. I haven't tried this out myself, however I have seen a video which *appears* to show a scratch DJ (getdown) using this technology with no problems.
http://www.virtualdj.com/download/virtualdj_by_dj_getdown.wmv
Personally, i feel that this technology, if it works, is a good compromise, because you still get the feeling and looks of using vinyl, but without having to carry around stacks of records.
DJ Craze LURRRRRRRVES the Final Scratch, he's used it since they first made it (and iirc he became their 'man in the field', he basically stress tested it and used it as hard as he could as often as possible to find out its limits as a solution for serious DJing.
I've seen him pull off many turntablist tricks, some pretty complex, with little or no audible difference - doubtless he had to adapt his style slightly, but on a fast rig with good source sound quality (good carts and a good signal path to transmit as much of the timecode as quickly as possible) I can't imagine there's much in it.
I've seen videos of entire sets by bedroom DJs who've used Final Scratch for an hour with no discernable difficulties. I've seen Final Scratch being used live, although I've had to stand in silence for up to five minutes (once, closer to ten) while they sorted out the problems associated with rewiring an unfamiliar mixer in an unfamiliar PA setup to add the Final Scratch 'pod' (the external sound card, for want of a better description) to the signal path and allow the DJ to switch to line input.
There are limitations to the FS system, but I'd relish the opportunity to be able to flick through my catalogue as quickly as you can with Traktor. I'd have to rip alllllll my vinyls to flac though, as I wouldn't DJ with MP3s unless I had nothing else - if you're gonna be a serious FS DJ, I think you can justify the spend on a laptop with a biggish hdd to hold your collection. The software's come leaps and bounds since I first saw it demoed, and if I could afford the large cost on top of decks, mixer, PA setup etc... I think I'd consider adding it to my setup. It's the hassle of installing it into a club setup though just to play your set which can break up the continuity - clubs which have a FS pod installed permanently are definitely onto something...
... You can never be as spontaneous, not even with FS, for all its benefits, as you can when you just dip your hand into that record box and draw a record entirely at random though :) But don't call me a luddite, I dig technology and tbh there's not much wrong with FS that can't be fixed to make it a perfect complement to a DJ's setup. However, I'm just too much of a vinyl junkie to ever stop using vinyl ;)
not to be too much of an idiot, but who really cares if they're linked to increased piracy? the easiest way to defeat that link would be to have labels release everything on cd / mp3 / wav as well as vinyl from now on, giving us a choice. then the people who like to hoard their vinyl could do so and the dj's who "sorta want that track but not if it's gonna cost me $20" could buy an mp3 of it and be able to play it once in a while.
** EDIT ** just in case it's not obvious, i'm quite against dj's who download, burn & play. if you haven't bought a song or you haven't been given it by someone who's allowed to give it you, don't play it. period.
:word:
I'm a nasty stingy bastard and I want the label & artist to get the money for the record (which I buy at a lower cost), rather then the label, artist, shipping company, wholesaler, shipping company again, record shop (at a higher price).
DJ Craze LURRRRRRRVES the Final Scratch, he's used it since they first made it (and iirc he became their 'man in the field', he basically stress tested it and used it as hard as he could as often as possible to find out its limits as a solution for serious DJing.
I've seen him pull off many turntablist tricks, some pretty complex, with little or no audible difference - doubtless he had to adapt his style slightly, but on a fast rig with good source sound quality (good carts and a good signal path to transmit as much of the timecode as quickly as possible) I can't imagine there's much in it.
I've seen videos of entire sets by bedroom DJs who've used Final Scratch for an hour with no discernable difficulties. I've seen Final Scratch being used live, although I've had to stand in silence for up to five minutes (once, closer to ten) while they sorted out the problems associated with rewiring an unfamiliar mixer in an unfamiliar PA setup to add the Final Scratch 'pod' (the external sound card, for want of a better description) to the signal path and allow the DJ to switch to line input.
There are limitations to the FS system, but I'd relish the opportunity to be able to flick through my catalogue as quickly as you can with Traktor. I'd have to rip alllllll my vinyls to flac though, as I wouldn't DJ with MP3s unless I had nothing else - if you're gonna be a serious FS DJ, I think you can justify the spend on a laptop with a biggish hdd to hold your collection. The software's come leaps and bounds since I first saw it demoed, and if I could afford the large cost on top of decks, mixer, PA setup etc... I think I'd consider adding it to my setup. It's the hassle of installing it into a club setup though just to play your set which can break up the continuity - clubs which have a FS pod installed permanently are definitely onto something...
... You can never be as spontaneous, not even with FS, for all its benefits, as you can when you just dip your hand into that record box and draw a record entirely at random though :) But don't call me a luddite, I dig technology and tbh there's not much wrong with FS that can't be fixed to make it a perfect complement to a DJ's setup. However, I'm just too much of a vinyl junkie to ever stop using vinyl ;)
you basically contradicted your self with that last "spontaneous" comment. you can quite easily pick random tracks. and how "spontaneous" are you when you flick through a record box of 50 to 100 records that you chose to bring with you? it's fine saying that you prefer vinyl over fs/serato/etc but saying that vinyl is more spontaneous than that particular digital setup is a joke.
you basically contradicted your self with that last "spontaneous" comment. you can quite easily pick random tracks. and how "spontaneous" are you when you flick through a record box of 50 to 100 records that you chose to bring with you? it's fine saying that you prefer vinyl over fs/serato/etc but saying that vinyl is more spontaneous than that particular digital setup is a joke.
you basically want to be right dont you. pick one thing you disagree with in someones opinion, and attack that, despite the totally reasonable tone of his comments.
Vinyl is technically much worse than Digital.
But,vinyl is much more human,and the distortions it has,are more musical.
What measures best doesnt always sound better.
In the end its about emotion occuring in the brain,not knowing which is technically better.
Djs who DO have an illegal CD collection and then play out,make themselves pretty obvious + the copies are probably mp3 encoded at some stage.
Note that playing mp3s,with the pitch set anywhere but original speed,the mp3 masking etc wont work and sound disgusting,as if its encoded at a way lower rate. the masking works for certain frequencies and you make them obvious if you modify BPM.
M;138642']Djs who DO have an illegal CD collection and then play out,make themselves pretty obvious + the copies are probably mp3 encoded at some stage.
Note that playing mp3s,with the pitch set anywhere but original speed,the mp3 masking etc wont work and sound disgusting,as if its encoded at a way lower rate. the masking works for certain frequencies and you make them obvious if you modify BPM.
never played an illegal dub in my life but I do mix with mp3 dubs sometimes, and that is really interesting.
Is there anyway around it? do .wav files do the same?
MadChoonz
10-09-2006, 23:50
A lot of people still think CDJ's are for sellouts. I really personally don't beleive that.. But, I love vinyl. Also, you have to drop more money on a good CDJ than you do for a Technics 1200. I'd rather have my 2 techs with SCRATCH LIVE or something.
http://www.bombhiphop.com/newbomb/bombpages/images/SERATO%20SCRATCH%20LIVE-1.gif
because with a vinyl u get more control over the music there r less boundries with vinyl the only downside with vinyl is the price but it's a matter of choise u can pull of a sick mix with cd's aswell as vinyl:mkay:
A bit of background listening for all interested in this debate:
Clipz - Download
:D
I missed any clips of this ^^ tune so far ....:i_love_co
because with a vinyl u get more control over the music there r less boundries with vinyl the only downside with vinyl is the price but it's a matter of choise u can pull of a sick mix with cd's aswell as vinyl:mkay:
Bollocks. "More control?" - what does that mean?
You can pull a sick mix with a cd just as easily, if not easier - instant stop & start + time stretching + normal track nudging. But you do need an expensive cd player with a platter to do it.
Bollocks. "More control?" - what does that mean?
You can pull a sick mix with a cd just as easily, if not easier - instant stop & start + time stretching + normal track nudging. But you do need an expensive cd player with a platter to do it.
its not sick if you do it on CD :teeth:
edxxxxxxxx
30-09-2006, 15:32
A pair of decks are better because of scratching and changing position, even if the quality is slightly worse. You can get good vynil simulators witch have these qualities, like the Technics SLDZ1200, but they are really too expensive.
The SLDZ1200s also have their flaws... The first models also HORRIBLY mangled the sound if you put on pitch lock and then scratched... They sounded fucking ugly, all nasty and digitally and urgh. They've fixed this particular problem in subsequent models, but the fact they even released the deck with this problem reeks of rush-to-market :X
Don't like the stupid thin plastic platter either, WAY too sensitive. For a deck costing me the best part of a grand EACH, I'd expect a better user experience to be honest.
sam the dnb man
24-05-2007, 18:36
i just love vinyl i can mix so much better with it especially double dropping is so much easier nd u can do much better mixes with vinyl im only 15 so ppl automatically fink il use cdj but i dnt iv used one a few times n vinyl is so much better
David Bass
30-05-2007, 01:42
A bit of background listening for all interested in this debate:
Clipz - Download
:D
That track makes me want to vomit!!!!!
anywhoo VINYL FTW!!
No problem with people doing the digital thing unless it is simply because tracks are more readily available and cheaper to get. A big part of the fun in being a dj is digging through crates at the record shop or flea market or that feeling that you get when you finally track down that piece of vinyl you have been searching for for years. With digital downloads that is all lost.
i gots to stay true to the form. vinyl is the original, it doesn't mean that it is or isn't the best for any afforementioned reason, but it is a craft***!!** plain and simple. i wanted to mix because it was a skill i wanted to master, and now it's a skill i want to use and promote and share etc etc... but why can't i now schlurrpp one of those sexy technics cdj's into my set up and have the best of both worlds. there doesn't need to be an argument about it. dnb has always been a progressive scene, so why be down on the natural progression of technology.
basically i'm saying it's like knowing your roots of the scene jungle spawned dnb, vinyl spawned cd/mp3... just remember that because it's new fangled it doesn't mean it's gonna rip the soul out of what you love.
ultimately something will come along and replace cds, but that don't mean they'll die either because there'll always be purists for any form of experession no matter how old or obsolete.
anyway, my mrs still listens to tapes*
how bout this to solve your problems......
i give you $100,000 right now, and tell you to buy a car, and you have two days to purchace it, you cannot keep the money left over if you buy a cheaper car, and you must keep the car for two years, but you can buy any car you want to live with for two years. fair enough?
so who is buying the economy car in this situation? costs $12,000 and you give up $88,000. or you buy the AC Schnitzer M5 for just under $100,000, that is just the same as the economy car (four doors, gets you around the same, seats five, ect ect).
now back to CD sound vs sex.........
you can go buy CD's in the store and listen to them in your home or car stereo all your life and never know what 40hz 'feels' like. you could also have a girlfriend that you fuck everyday that can't get you off because of mental scars that will never leave. now.......CD's (w/ WAV files) don't sound too terribly different from that of vinyl, but the 'feelings' associated with touch, hearing, dancing, or to sum it all up, 'enjoying' what is on the plate being played through a sound system that cost more than your free AC Schnitzer BMW M5, is worth the extra effort to try and ban CD players even to be installed into clubs (IMHO), but that would never happen, because people like the easy, convenient way of doing things in this day and age. the average club goer might go for reasons they don't understand or cannot explain, but in all honesty, they go to clubs for sex. whether it be for the sound system or the opposite sex, or to get drunk, or whatever it is, it is a direct comparison to sex and/or the 'feelings' that com along with that. and if you could have a model to fuck everyday (vinyl) why the fuck would you get the borderline fat, 'almost' hot chick (CD's) in your bed, when the effort put out to get the final goal (sex w/ speakers) is the same?
i think vinyl sucks, it gets scratched, it wears out, sound fades, it cost more, and it is heavy, takes up more room, is a pain in the ass, but the day i put a CD in a CD player on a 100,000 dollar sound system will be the day i don't care about sex.
FANCY A FUCK?:nutkick:
David Bass
11-06-2007, 12:20
support artists.....buy vinyl
VINYL.....................................End of!!!!!
blackdeath88012
12-06-2007, 20:17
def. vinyl...
tarranjoe
15-06-2007, 11:19
whoever started a thread entitled "vinyl vs. digital" deserves to be shot:missile:, vinyl is infinitely better, nuff said
support artists.....buy vinyl
What has that got to do with supporting artists? The costs of vinyl are mostly for a Victorian production process / distribution.
DJ COSHH
15-06-2007, 18:39
support artists.....buy vinyl
What you mean is support artist ... don't download for free
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